Is the REAL problem with VQs...Norfleet?

[NTJedi]

The VQ is just a tool used...
Ermor is obviously a huge reason as well being in the top_3 strongest... if not the strongest. Ermor is so strong none of the fellow gamers I play with use Ermor. The second reason being it's one of the few opponents the AI can play during a multiplayer game for providing a great challenge.

Also the other players should make better alliances during multiplayer games against Norfleet . Diplomacy is huge during multiplayer games and can easily tip the scales between even the most expert player.

In my multiplayer games if one person begins taking the lead other players join together to bring him down.

[Slygar]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
It SHOULD look more like this:
Name.........Nation........Kills........Exp
Hooshang.....Caelum..........781.........65
Kavay....... Caelum..........699.........45
Frenay.......Caelum..........678.........46
Kavata.......Caelum..........521.........42
Lady Dark....Ermor...........150.........89
Buffy........Man.............102.........40

This is off topic, but has anyone ever tried Vengeance of the Dead on people that have kill Ratings like that? I try to spam it on any pretenders I see in the hall of fame, and its gotten me a few VQs as well.. MR might block it, though, since it doesnt always work, but I'm not sure if it just says "they managed to resist it" if MR stopped it, or if they won the battle - which is obviously not likely after 700 or so

This is one reason I would love to see Hall of Fame heroes appear in scout reports like pretenders do

[ May 08, 2004, 05:53: Message edited by: Slygar ]

[AhhhFresh]

Originally posted by Slygar:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Norfleet:
It SHOULD look more like this:
Name.........Nation........Kills........Exp
Hooshang.....Caelum..........781.........65
Kavay....... Caelum..........699.........45
Frenay.......Caelum..........678.........46
Kavata.......Caelum..........521.........42
Lady Dark....Ermor...........150.........89
Buffy........Man.............102.........40

This is off topic, but has anyone ever tried Vengeance of the Dead on people that have kill Ratings like that? I try to spam it on any pretenders I see in the hall of fame, and its gotten me a few VQs as well.. MR might block it, though, since it doesnt always work, but I'm not sure if it just says "they managed to resist it" if MR stopped it, or if they won the battle - which is obviously not likely after 700 or so

This is one reason I would love to see Hall of Fame heroes appear in scout reports like pretenders do

---

IIRC Vengeance of the Dead does not work on undead beings.

[Norfleet]

Vengeance of the Dead doesn't work on undead beings, and tends to bounce off of anything that qualifies as an SC pretender chassis, due to the combination of god-class MR and magic-resistance items.

This is probably why the potentially game-crashing nature of Vengeance of the Dead isn't mentioned much: According to my measurements, the game battlefield isn't really physically capable of holding more than about 3000 units, as the dimensions of the battlefield, if jampacked, wouldn't support more than that for any given side....

[Tris]

What you list there is pretty standard for any magic powered SC... ie researching Alteration 3 and Enchantment 1. And that can be achieved in 5-7 turns depending on whether your SC needs anything forged, so I wouldn't call it "mid game".

My reasoning was that if the alternative starts winning provinces on turn 1, and you wait till turn 5 (your earliest estimate) your alternative would have 5 more provinces than you by then, and
1+2+3+4+5 = 15 turns more province income ASSUMING that he doesn't reinvest that income to capture more provinces. So if there is such an alternative, the VQ suggested can hardly be considered a good "early expansion" pretender.

[Chris Byler]

One of the problems with VQs, and equipped SCs in general, is that it's too easy to become invulnerable to all elements (counting poison as an "element" because it's a form of attack that you can easily become immune to). All but the most powerful items (artifacts and maybe the dragon scale armors) should give no more than 50-75% reduction, and anything that gives multiple resistances should give no more than 25%, or 50% if that's ALL it does.

It's ok to make it possible for someone to become immune to *one* element. But becoming immune to *all* elements makes you immune to the vast majority of attack spells, all at once, and that's what leads to the unkillable monsters we have now.

Of course, the fact that a lot of SCs are undead and thus naturally immune to cold and poison and fatigue doesn't help. Lesser undead counterbalance this by being vulnerable to banishment, but it's pretty trivial to make an SC essentially immune to banishment. A Greater Banishment with high precision, AOE 1 square, and a high magic penetration bonus (or no MR save) would help here.

IMO, most corporeal undead should have no more than 50% cold and 75% poison resistance inherently. Maybe 100% poison for things with no flesh at all (longdeads). But hardly anything with a body should be completely immune to cold. Although it may not affect them as much as it would a living being, it still can damage them.

I think this would help Water Magic, too - currently it's hampered partly by the fact that a lot of things are immune to most of its battlefield spells, in addition to its other weaknesses.

[proteus]

SCs are a huge problem imho. They are killing machines. Killing whole armies with 1 SC makes no sense imho.

Oh and I totally agree with Chris Byler.