Deception

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by Vynd:
But even if Stormbinder and the rest acted somewhat foolishly, that doesn't change the fact that what Norfleet did was dishonest.

Quite. It's the dishonesty, outside the context of diplomacy, that I think is the cause of most of the ill-feeling we're seeing here. And it's dishonesty that continued after the game, when Norfleet was defending his actions here.

In the "Play the World" thread, he said:

Perhaps, except that I only asked him questions I already knew the answers to anyway.

What were these questions to which he knew the answers before they were given? According to Stormbinder (in the same thread) they were:

See, as a Norfleet he was constantly soliciting information from each of Pkahar Njar's (his alias in our game) neigbors with questions such as "So what are you going to do about Caelum?" (Caelum was Pakhar's nation). "How is your war against Caelum going?" , "How are you going to attack Caelum now?". (all these are exact quotes)

'Nuff said? Norfleet apparently thought so too, because he didn't respond when I presented him with this. Instead, he started a new thread with this comment:

Due to the rampant hijacking and derailing of the other thread, I'm not going to deign to respond to it and am going to let it die and sink back into the abyss where it came from.

For me, this is all about dishonest behaviour in public, and almost nothing to do with Dominions. So I'll leave it there.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Zapmeister:
In the "Play the World" thread, he said:

quote:

---

Perhaps, except that I only asked him questions I already knew the answers to anyway.

What were these questions to which he knew the answers before they were given? According to Stormbinder (in the same thread) they were:

See, as a Norfleet he was constantly soliciting information from each of Pkahar Njar's (his alias in our game) neigbors with questions such as "So what are you going to do about Caelum?" (Caelum was Pakhar's nation). "How is your war against Caelum going?" , "How are you going to attack Caelum now?". (all these are exact quotes)

'Nuff said? Norfleet apparently thought so too, because he didn't respond when I presented him with this. Instead, he started a new thread with this comment:

Due to the rampant hijacking and derailing of the other thread, I'm not going to deign to respond to it and am going to let it die and sink back into the abyss where it came from.

For me, this is all about dishonest behaviour in public, and almost nothing to do with Dominions. So I'll leave it there.

---

I started a new thread because the contents were no longer relevant to the actual GAME: Bringing up matters from another deceased game to the a new game is not helpful or relevant. As the thread had been sufficiently derailed, I opted to jettison it.

As for the accusations in question, I have made my statement, intend to stand by it, and have deliberately chosen not to comment on the matter further.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Vynd:
[QB] It's my understanding that Norfleet did not just sit around waiting for people to mention what people were going to do in thise Fire and Ice game. Although I'm sure some of that went on. But unless Stormbinder is lying--and I'm sure Norfleet would have called him on it by now if he was ....

I've called Stormbinder on lying and misrepresenting the facts. Still haven't gotten him to reply to the question I asked, the issues I brought up.

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
As for the accusations in question, I have made my statement, intend to stand by it, and have deliberately chosen not to comment on the matter further.

I have no problem with that.

Perhaps you could provide a reference to your statement that addresses the accusations in question (that you claim to have known your opponent's plans before asking about them).

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Cainehill:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vynd:
[QB] It's my understanding that Norfleet did not just sit around waiting for people to mention what people were going to do in thise Fire and Ice game. Although I'm sure some of that went on. But unless Stormbinder is lying--and I'm sure Norfleet would have called him on it by now if he was ....

I've called Stormbinder on lying and misrepresenting the facts. Still haven't gotten him to reply to the question I asked, the issues I brought up.

---

Hmmm? I have no idea what you are talking about. All I have noticed so far in all your Posts is that you constantly defending Norfleet everywhere that you can, without any real regard to the facts or trying to listen to arguments of your opponents. And also claiming that you are not Norfleet's defender or appologist.

I don't know what strange psyhological bond you have with Norfleet, and I am not really interested in it. What really surprised me though, is that you told me here (for the first time) that you have known about Norfleet all along but choose not to tell anybody else, instead prefering to blame me for spoiling the game by "admiting norfleet's ringer" in our game. I still have your strange email in which you did so and I can post it here if you are going to dispute it. No matter what is the reason for your pecular behaivour I'll leave it on your conscience.


As for myself - I didn't lie in anything I told on this board about the facts of the game, so please stop saying obscure nonsense without any proof. I have also posted a lot of quotes and logs here and elsewhere, and our "Fire and Ice" thread is very clear and open for anybody to see. Even Norfleet himself could not dispute these facts, instead all he can do and what he have been doing here all along was trying to "explain" his dishonest and cheating behaviour - by pure "spining", admiting the facts but denying his motives, in extremely clumsy and unconvincing way.


And finally keep in mind that Zen asked everybody to drop this topic, and even send me email asking to do it. If you choose to continue this discussion I suggest do it elsewhere, on GoneGold Boards, emails, IRC, or whatever. I don't know about you, but I am not interested in geting Banned because of you trying to resurect dead and smelly horse Cainehill.

[ May 26, 2004, 07:18: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Stormbinder:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cainehill:
I've called Stormbinder on lying and misrepresenting the facts. Still haven't gotten him to reply to the question I asked, the issues I brought up.

Hmmm?
I have no idea what you are talking about.

---

Just one example : You wrote that the house rules were explicitly designed to prevent Norfleet's "abusive" style of play.

I quoted the actual house rules, showing that _NONE_ of them had anything to do with Norfleet's style of play, and asked you to explain just which ones you were making that claim about.

The reply: Silence.

What really surprised me though, is that you told me here (for the first time) that you have known about Norfleet all along but choose not to tell anybody else, instead prefering to blame me for spoiling the game by "admiting norfleet's ringer" in our game.

Again, a distortion. I have stated that I found out that it was Norfleet sometime shortly after the 20 turn mark. According to several of you people's standards, the game was already "ruined", so telling y'all would have done nothing to fix the game, but would have been a violation of confidence and honor.

And again - you let Norfleet in, did you not? After promising several of us on IRC that all the players were going to be hand selected, personally vouched for, and individually invited. Then you let a complete stranger in who turned out to be Norfleet. The responsibility for an unpleasant game rests on your shoulders.

[/qb]
As for myself - I didn't lie in anything I told on this board about the facts of the game, so please stop saying obscure nonsense without any proof. I have also posted a lot of quotes and logs here and elsewhere[/qb]

First, you still haven't replied to the misrepresentation of the facts that I have again written of in this post. Deliberately avoiding the unpleasantness of explaining your misrepresentation is ... lying.

Second: You are aware that capturing IRC logs without the other people's awareness / consent is, has long been, regarded on somewhat unethical? Not that I say anything on IRC I don't want quoted, but....

And finally keep in mind that Zen asked everybody to drop this topic, and even send me email asking to do it. If you choose to continue this discussion I suggest do it elsewhere, on GoneGold Boards, emails, IRC, or whatever. I don't know about you, but I am not interested in geting Banned because of you trying to resurect dead and smelly horse Cainehill.

Who is resurrecting the dead horse? You just can't stop posting about it. You ... just ... can't ... stop, can you?

I believe this is a discussion that should be continued via PM's or on another chat/board feature.

As I stated before, it is inappropriate to continue this line of off topic discussion. For either Norfleet or Stormbinder.

I am locking this thread and expect this discussion to not bleed into other topics or new threads unless it is taken to Shrapnel General.

Thank you for your cooperation.