Two Birds with One Stone Suggestion

[Scott Hebert]

Originally posted by LintMan:
Seems way overpowered.

It was written to be strong, yes. It needs to be less than a Clam if it is to control them, though.

I'd use that spell to strip all the items off any enemy SC's,

Added bonus: It relieves SCs of their equipment, which really puts the hurt on SCs. I thought limiting SCs was also something on a wish list?

and to strip large armies of their Wine bags, leaving them starving.

While more of an issue, this would make people break their armies down into smaller bites, something that I feel should be done anyway.

Even if the cost was made more in line with its power, stealing clams would be pretty low, priority-wise, because you would't be able to cast it enough to make a difference..

Really? This spell costs half as much as a Clam, so I _should_ be able to cast this twice as much, if I have the mages to do it.

Also, the clam hoarder is likely far better equipped to spam this spell than his opponents would be, since he'd already have a good water gem income, and a bunch of water mages.

Well, if he's stealing stuff, he isn't making Clams, now is he? That was rather the point of the exercise, wasn't it...?

Another option would be a Fire item-destroying Ritual (which would be quite useful).

Scott

[Scott Hebert]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
Creative. but it doesnt feel very watery. more like an astral spell.

Yes, I'm aware of that. Unfortunately, do we really WANT Astral to get more powerful? If you made this Astral, at any level, the game would devolve TOWARDS Clams even faster, IMO.

I originally thought of putting it in Air (Thieving Magpie, anyone?), but Water needs the boost much more than Air.

Scott

[Scott Hebert]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
It made me think though. What if only a water-mage could use it? Dont we have oher items like that? (the only thing that come to mind at the moment is the stupid crown that only Ermor can use but I keep getting from indies)

Errr... that just restricts who can use the Clam-hoarding strategy, right? Off the top of my head, this would restrict Clam-hoarding to:

Pythium
Atlantis
Caelum
Rlyeh (sort of)
Arco
Tien Chi

Rlyeh _really_ gets hit by this. They can't afford to use their 280g non-sacred mage to hold Clams.

OTOH, Pythium is the big winner. A 150g Sacred Theurge (which can be recruited in all castles) easily holds the Clams. They also have natural income in both Water _and_ Astral. Their problem is reliably having a Forger for them. If I wanted to Clam-hoard, I'd probably take a minimal Pretender, have her Forge Clams until I get to Construction 6, then bust out with the Bracelets.

Arco has a somewhat more random time of it. They're not helped nearly as much due to no innate water gem income, and no guarantee of being able to Forge them. Their Mystics also cost about the same in upkeep as a Arch theurg.

Tien Chi is also another clear winner here. The Celestial Masters can Forge them, and S&A also gets the Master of the Five Elements to hold them.

I'm not sure if this is a good idea, per se. It might limit it, but it would probably just shift it around.

If you wanted to add a drawback to the Pearls, as someone else suggested Horror Marking is probably the easiest way to do it.

Of course, if you want to deal with Clams _after_ they're established, you might go with something like:

Artificer's Bane (Evocation 6 or so)
Ritual
FFFFF
40 Fire gems

Target a Province. Each and every item in that province has a 10% chance of being destroyed. All items on the casting mage are automatically destroyed.

(That Last part is to 'up the cost' of the spell, since few people other than Pretenders will naturally have Fire-5.)

Hrm. I'm in a pensive mood...

Scott

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Bayushi Tasogare:
It was written to be strong, yes. It needs to be less than a Clam if it is to control them, though.

Since it is likely to be more powerful than wind ride, it would have to have a similar cost.

I personally don't think there should be any way to get items from a commander without killing that commander and having the chance that it gets picked up.

[Scott Hebert]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
I personally don't think there should be any way to get items from a commander without killing that commander and having the chance that it gets picked up.

Fair enough, but that tends towards SCing. Not criticizing, just making an observation.

What would you think of ways of destroying artifacts? Probably should be Fire. (This is specifically thematically linked towards destruction rather than disenchantment because we don't want to give this sort of ability to Astral magic.)

You might also make a Blood magic Ritual that Curses an item and Horror Marks the person holding it.

Just a few thoughts.

Scott

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Bayushi Tasogare:
What would you think of ways of destroying artifacts?

You can already wish for the artifact and throw it away if you like. Other than that, I'd rather not see any way to destroy magical items.

[LintMan]

Originally posted by Bayushi Tasogare:

quote:

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I'd use that spell to strip all the items off any enemy SC's,

Added bonus: It relieves SCs of their equipment, which really puts the hurt on SCs. I thought limiting SCs was also something on a wish list?

---

Whether SC's need to be toned down is debatable, but this spell would totally nerf them, IMHO.

quote:

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and to strip large armies of their Wine bags, leaving them starving.

While more of an issue, this would make people break their armies down into smaller bites, something that I feel should be done anyway.

---

I love the big honkin' armies! The massive battles are one of my favorite parts of the game!

quote:

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Even if the cost was made more in line with its power, stealing clams would be pretty low, priority-wise, because you would't be able to cast it enough to make a difference..

Really? This spell costs half as much as a Clam, so I _should_ be able to cast this twice as much, if I have the mages to do it.

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Which makes it only viable for water-magic nations to combat the clam hording?

quote:

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Also, the clam hoarder is likely far better equipped to spam this spell than his opponents would be, since he'd already have a good water gem income, and a bunch of water mages.

Well, if he's stealing stuff, he isn't making Clams, now is he? That was rather the point of the exercise, wasn't it...?

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My point was that the clam horder would likely have a healthy water gem income, and a surplus of water mages to be able to cast the spell, while non-clam-hording nations are much less likely to have those conditions. (ie: Marignon wouldn't have an easy time using this fix.)

[ May 28, 2004, 04:29: Message edited by: LintMan ]