Golden Age Arcoscephale

Originally posted by Blitz:
I'd be more interested to know your views on the wind rider modifications, Zen. Since it sounds like you've played a lot of GA in multiplayer, I'd like to hear what you think. I did read a few Posts where you shared my views on the wind rider vs valkrie issue, but do you think +awe on a bless troop is potentially game-breaking or do you like the change?

I was trying to avoid that issue. I do think the Wind Rider is not cost effective. I do think that they are strong with vast potential to do quite a bit in a game if you are able to use them right.

I can't say as I think Awe is the best move in the world. Because Awe is very strong against independants but as the game progresses it becomes more and more useless. I also feel that awe should be limited so that it is not so very common. If anything I'd like to give the Icarians Awe +0 so they might be useful for their cost and lowering the cost of the Wind Riders to something more feasible to even bless (100 is my gut instinct).

One other thing, while I think giving Wind Lords magic might be good, I don't know if it should be air. Then they would look and feel sort of like Vans. (Which GE already feels somewhat like already)

Edit: This might be because whenever I think of any pegasus type of thing, I think of Clash of the Titans. I saw it too mucha s I kid I think and it has distorted my perception of a few key mythological creatures (Medusa's and Pegasus as well as whatever Caliban was).

[ June 18, 2004, 16:40: Message edited by: Zen ]

[Scott Hebert]

I'm not sure if you are trolling or just being argumentitive, but at this point I'll just suggest you not use the mod =).

I think it's safe to say that I don't troll, having been given ample opportunity and not taking it. About the most trollish thing I've done in this thread is to point out that it's Golden Era, not Golden Age (which I have now done twice).

I think most players would agree with my assesment of the Shedu as an absolutely horrible example of a national pretender, but you clearly are not one of them and seem determined not to be convinced otherwise.

No, I'm not going to be convinced with the arguments you've put forward so far, especially when they get basic facts about the game wrong (such as how buying paths work).

To be specific, if you have no levels in a path, the first level will cost the Path cost listed for the Pretender. The second level will cost 16 points. If you have 1 in a Path already, the second level (the first one you purchase) will cost 8 points.

To be fair, though, my initial post was reacting more to other people's comments about giving the Shedu EEESSS or EESS, which is completely unbalanced. Your mod, as I see it, wouldn't change much, but I shirk away from giving a Pretender with _that_ many HPs and _that_ much combat potential a base Dominion of 4.

[Blitz]

I can't say as I think Awe is the best move in the world. Because Awe is very strong against independants but as the game progresses it becomes more and more useless. I also feel that awe should be limited so that it is not so very common. If anything I'd like to give the Icarians Awe +0 so they might be useful for their cost and lowering the cost of the Wind Riders to something more feasible to even bless (100 is my gut instinct).

One other thing, while I think giving Wind Lords magic might be good, I don't know if it should be air. Then they would look and feel sort of like Vans. (Which GE already feels somewhat like already)

You are definately right about awe having diminishing returns, but as you know it's incredibly powerful against independants and many nationals. I'm playing a game in another window now and my small group of 4 wind lords are doing very well in early expansion. Without awe they die far too easily for a 125 gold unit.

And you are definately right about the Wind Lord resembling Vans (and Tuatha), but if you are going to give them magic, but not air... then what? After all, it's a Wind Lord =). I'm not sure any of the other paths would be appropriate for thematic reasons. The new lords are pretty damn impressive. I've only recruited one, and he's easily as good as a Vanadrott... but obviously a Hangadrott (with soul vortex), or Tuatha (regeneration, elemental fortitude) is going to be better at the same price. The WL does fly with a lance and awe, however. I was hesitant to make him as powerful as either of the existing air SC's, and purposely overcosted him in relation.

I also feel that awe should be limited so that it is not so very common

You are right that the devs purposely made awe a very "special" trait. I believe only the dryad hoplite has it on a national troop. I think it's more thematicly apropriate on a pegasus than it would be on a lot of other troops, however. I tried to pick an ability that strengthened the unit while fitting the flavor of the text and picture. Pegasus are pretty =).

[Ironhawk]

Clearly there is a difference of opinion here

But I have to say that I tend to agree that GE Arco is underpowered. Why don't the people who support GE Arco as a viable theme just list out thier strategy. early, mid, late game, etc. Be specific and if it looks good on paper and works in some test games then the subject can be laid to rest....

[HotNifeThruButr]

While I'm not an expert on Golden Era, and I know the main subject are wind riders, I think you could have taken a better approach to myrmidons. Myrmidons are supposed to be soldiers who always follow their superior's orders (I don't know if that definition evolved in time or was a trait that the classic mythological myrmidons had). I think they should be given 50 morale to make them powerful tanks. I think a strategy would be to have myrmidon stand in front of the battle with attack closest, while chariots in the back hold and attack. The myrmidon fight enemy infantry to a standstill, since they are powerful defensively that way and still have crap attacks. When the chariots move out, they get to make their attack before the enemy could respond, since this is a turnbased game and they've already wasted a round of swings on your rock hard myrmidon.

On the issue of Wind Riders, we musn't forget that they can fly AND have a lance. Doesn't that make them similar to a nuclear warhead against spell dependent SC's?

[Blitz]

On the issue of Wind Riders, we musn't forget that they can fly AND have a lance. Doesn't that make them similar to a nuclear warhead against spell dependent SC's?

Most SC's are erthreal or wear a robe of erthrealness, so it's not as effective as it would first seem. But yes, they still pretty good in that role.

While I'm not an expert on Golden Era, and I know the main subject are wind riders, I think you could have taken a better approach to myrmidons. Myrmidons are supposed to be soldiers who always follow their superior's orders (I don't know if that definition evolved in time or was a trait that the classic mythological myrmidons had). I think they should be given 50 morale to make them powerful tanks.

I agree somewhat with your logic here. My concept of a myrmidon is an elite, skilled, brave warrior... who unfortunately has a crappy sword and antique armor. I gave them a fairly significant morale boost as it is. I think the developers want to reserve ultra-high morale for mindless units such as undead... and berserkers. I had toyed with giving the myrmidons a berserker flag, but didn't feel it was either needed or appropriate to the theme.

[Scott Hebert]

Originally posted by HotNifeThruButr:
Myrmidons are supposed to be soldiers who always follow their superior's orders (I don't know if that definition evolved in time or was a trait that the classic mythological myrmidons had).

IIRC, the Myrmidons in Greek myth were a Groups of soldiers who were turned into humans from ants (hence the "Myr" prefix). This would explain their extremely good morale and discipline.

I think they should be given 50 morale to make them powerful tanks. I think a strategy would be to have myrmidon stand in front of the battle with attack closest, while chariots in the back hold and attack. The myrmidon fight enemy infantry to a standstill, since they are powerful defensively that way and still have crap attacks.

An increase in morale would be good, but 50 is far too high. That is Mindless level, IIRC. I can't recall any normal troops that have morale higher than 15. Giving them a 14 or 15 morale I think would be just as good as 50, and be believable.

When the chariots move out, they get to make their attack before the enemy could respond, since this is a turnbased game and they've already wasted a round of swings on your rock hard myrmidon.

I don't use Chariots, so I don't know how to evaluate this.

On the issue of Wind Riders, we musn't forget that they can fly AND have a lance. Doesn't that make them similar to a nuclear warhead against spell dependent SC's?

Not particularly. It does make them extremely powerful against troops in general, though. When you consider they have _3_ attacks, and they fly, a Fire blessing in particular sounds like it would be devastating. IME, they are, if deployed in enough numbers (say, 10+). You could use a Moloch with your starting troops to take out provinces until they come on-line. It sounds like a beginning strategy to me.