your favourite 2.12 vq nation

[SelfishGene]

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:

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Originally posted by Stormbinder:
To Norf: 2 words - Mind Duel. Inless you get huge ammount of astral up to at least 8+, which would force you to waste huge ammount of points on most SC pretenders.

There are ways of getting Astral Weapon onto your pretender without being able to actually cast it. If you are driving, say, a Void Lord, in any case, you're already stuck with the Astral anyway. And hey, the Void Lord has a nice Life Drain tentacle, one which he can't lose by wielding a weapon.

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You could take a Son of the Sun. I mean you *could*....

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Zapmeister:
I agree, but I don't think I ever proposed nerfing the VQ "into oblivion". I hold to the view that she's still a little over-powered post-2.12, but that's a debate I'm trying to steer clear of now.

Yeh - the VQ may be a little over-powered still, but mainly only for a couple of nations / themes. More importantly, it isn't so much overpowered that there aren't possibilities that are at least on a par with it. For example - Caelum : Virtue, PoD, and Moloch all seem to be roughly on par with a VQ. Sure, maybe a little lighter in the loafers, but real close - enough that you can see building a game and pretender against any, and not just the VQ.

[Boron]

Originally posted by Cainehill:

quote:

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Originally posted by Zapmeister:
I agree, but I don't think I ever proposed nerfing the VQ "into oblivion". I hold to the view that she's still a little over-powered post-2.12, but that's a debate I'm trying to steer clear of now.

Yeh - the VQ may be a little over-powered still, but mainly only for a couple of nations / themes. More importantly, it isn't so much overpowered that there aren't possibilities that are at least on a par with it. For example - Caelum : Virtue, PoD, and Moloch all seem to be roughly on par with a VQ. Sure, maybe a little lighter in the loafers, but real close - enough that you can see building a game and pretender against any, and not just the VQ.

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the "problem" now with the vq is that the races who can still afford her , mainly caelum and abysia are already good races without vq .

this makes them even more desireable . from my short experience now abysia + caelum are under the 5 first chosen races in most offered games .

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Boron:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cainehill:
For example - Caelum : Virtue, PoD, and Moloch all seem to be roughly on par with a VQ. Sure, maybe a little lighter in the loafers, but real close - enough that you can see building a game and pretender against any, and not just the VQ.

the "problem" now with the vq is that the races who can still afford her , mainly caelum and abysia are already good races without vq .

this makes them even more desireable . from my short experience now abysia + caelum are under the 5 first chosen races in most offered games .

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You missed my point. Yes, you can build an uber-VQ with Abysia or Caelum (also with Pangaea, also with Ulm, also with Jotunheim). But with those same points, Abysia and Caelum can also build unGodly Virtues, PoDs, etc, that are _JUST_ as potent as the VQ. Their only problem is when they die or get feebleminded, they don't shrug it off the way the VQ does. (Albeit Pan's Carrion Dragon shrugs off the feebleminding.)

[Boron]

ok true . but all in all they are not so much cheaper than the vq .
especially for abysia the d1b2 of the vq is just nice because with only little empowerment there she can summon vampire lords .

all in all the pod + the virtue are about 100-150 points cheaper than the vq so about +3 scales .
this is the price for immortality etc.

but both need to be equipped in the best possible way you can if you want to use them in combat mid-lategame .
the vq can be equipped but it is no 100% must you can simply degrade her to a forger / summoner + occasional attacker not of the main enemy army but raiding armies etc still unequipped .

the immortality bonus is not that great but is good from psychological viewpoints .
if you are e.g. 80% sure to win the battle you can use your vq but perhaps you don't use your pod/virtue .