Are devils worth 7 blood each?

The_Tauren13 · #1 September 15th, 2004, 06:20 PM

I think the best suggestion to change clams is to make it a command that has to be given to whoever is wearing it: a "use item" command that would simply make 1 asral gem/turn. That way, your little scouts sitting around wont be able to hide and use them at the same time. Yes yes, i know what some people might say: "but it wont make any difference; i can just use domes!". Well, maybe it wouldnt make a BIG difference, but i dont think anyone is asking for a big change, just a change. It would definitely make some difference in that clam hoarding wouldnt be totally indestructable like it is now, and at least an opponent would be able to do something to kill off your clam income.

Now don't get me wrong; i don't support a change, i was just expressing my opinion about which suggestion was best. Personally, i think clams are fine as they are. The main reason people use them is not that they are overpowered, but because there is little else useful to do with water gems, like Panther and Cainehill were saying.

Cohen · #2 September 16th, 2004, 09:31 AM

Domes aren't totally protective as hiding is (nor Hiding is totally protective from some spells like Mind Hunt, but to cast it usually you should know that there's someone in that province, and a lone S1 mage will feeblemind your S4+ mage, even if it's S10 he'll get feebleminded).

The_Tauren13 · #3 September 16th, 2004, 12:40 PM

I've been wondering about mind hunt... How exactly does it work?

Thufir · #4 September 16th, 2004, 12:53 PM

Quote:

The_Tauren13 said:
I've been wondering about mind hunt... How exactly does it work?

Badly, in my SP experience.

You get the chance to kill one enemy commander (via Mind Burn or Soul Slay, whichever you've got, or Soul Slay if you've got both), but my experience is consistent with what Cohen is saying, in that the risk of being feebleminded is very high, even if you do it with a very high level astral mage. Also, I'm beginning to think Astral Projection carries with it the same kind of bogus risk.

Just had a thought - is it possible this is the same kind of bug that had been affecting magic duel? And then, is there any chance it's fixed in 2.14?

Cohen · #5 September 16th, 2004, 12:58 PM

You need too some research in Thaumathurgy.
It casts a Soul Slay or Mind Burn (the better you've researched beetween those 2), and cast it remotely (those spells are combat spells) on an enemy commander in that province.
It checks on MR and if fails to pass the check the enemy die if you've Soul Slay.
I know this strikes too hiding unit and glamouring ones. (I had a Man Thuatha besieging one of my castles ... the map shows that Man was besieging me but no units were shown ... I went for Mind Hunt, the spell found the target but sadly failed to kill him).
But it has a very high double edge... if there's an astral mage in the target province this will feeblemind all your guys casting the spell in that province (it's not very realistic imo that a single guy 1S could feeblemind 6 S3 or S4 mages casting that spell in the same turn). In fact this spell is usually used by Arco, that has healing priestess and cheap astrologers.

The_Tauren13 · #6 September 16th, 2004, 01:31 PM

Hmmm.. so ANY astral mage in the target province will ALWAYS feeblemind ALL casting mages??? That does make it sound somewhat useless...

Soapyfrog · #7 September 16th, 2004, 01:54 PM

Well perhaps not useless but it sure does require good scouting reports.

I have seen it have a tremendous imapct on the unprepared... the suden death of an army commander just before a battle can have rather severe consequences!

Cohen · #8 September 16th, 2004, 02:05 PM

If the enemy hasn't Astral Mages in the province this is the best spell to kill SCs without engaging them.
I killed Wraithlords and Air Queens too with that spell.

If you'ven't Astral as default and your random pick is capitol only probably you'll have problems in covering your troops.

Alneyan · #9 September 16th, 2004, 02:05 PM

If you are found by an Astral mage, can you still attempt to kill one of the commanders, or is the attempt aborted?

Even if you have to avoid Astral mages to ensure a kill, this spell should be useful if you have cheap Astral mages and/or ways of curing the likely feeblemindedness. Even an Astral mage 1 should be able to cast this spell with the Astral boosting equipment, although it would be fairly expensive to forge all of them. But since the mage isn't killed, even after a failure, I guess it may pay out after some successful castings.