(Shocking) News!!!!!

[Phoenix-D]

Suicide Junkie said:

Doesn't SE3 still sell copies?

I would expect that the SE4 and SF games will still sell after SE5 has had its 15 minutes of retail fame.
Trying to sell them while SE5 is breaking into the market is probably not a good idea, of course, but it shouldn't kill the market.
There is bound to be a surge of people interested in the whole series.

Any additional SE4 copies would probably have to be made by Strategy first, unless MM made a deal with Shrapnel to continue production.

[Suicide Junkie]

SE4 has nothing to do with S1st.
Why would they make copies?

[Phoenix-D]

Suicide Junkie said:
SE4 has nothing to do with S1st.
Why would they make copies?

They won't. I don't know for sure, but given Shrapnel's statement I think production rights went with MM. I.e. Shrapnel doesn't have the right to make any more SE4/SF copies.

[Joachim]

To vaguely distract people...

This is a fascinating exploration of loyalties. We have the fans to the game and developer and the fans to the publisher. These connections create a conflict with people choseing sides (loyalties require sides). This is an emotional reaction as people feel threatened, both as Space Empire gamers and as supporters of the protagonists. We also have loyalties from Aaraon and MM to Shrapnel and her people. The switch is being felt like an act of treason to some or growing up and moving on for others.

Our emotions, and loyalty being one of those, helps to direct social action - what we do in response to a given problem/issue/situation. The beauty of emotion is that it does not have to be rational, considered or make 'sense' (what is sense anyway?). Emotion orientes us to how we should feel and act.

So, what am I ranting about? What has happened here will create an emotional response for many - hence the posts and emotional tone that is expressed. Hurrah for that. But try to understand that with competing loyalties there is usually only irreconcilable differences of view. One person's traitor is another's saviour.

From my postion, I only see gain, we will get more players for SEV (and if it flops then for SEIV), we get to keep the fine forum here and thus be kept up to date with other great niche games from Shrapnel. I can see how Shrapnel might be a little peeved, but I also see that MM want to try and grow in a different market.

Thus ends the lecture... now I might go and harrass my actual students.

[Phoenix-D]

That's about what I expected, but what the heck is a catalog exchange?

[Imperious_Leader]

Stocks will be depleated in in two weeks or so.....wow am I ever glad I bought when I did, took over a month to get it but well worth the wait!

[Tim Brooks]

Hi Phoenix-D.

... but what the heck is a catalog exchange?

A catolog exchange is where two publishers will put each others product catalogs into their games. It can be appealing as it brings recognition for your products to the other publisher's fan base.

[AMF]

Joachim said:
...From my postion, I only see gain, we will get more players for SEV (and if it flops then for SEIV), we get to keep the fine forum here and thus be kept up to date with other great niche games from Shrapnel. ...

Yeah, it definitely seems like win-win for the fans. I think it's safe to say that we all seem to love BOTH the forums and the game, and I would like to heartily thank Shrapnel for being as cool about this as they are being as well as Aaron for making an outstanding game. And, I think it makes good sense business-wise and game-wise for Aaron to go the route he thinks will gain SE4/5 the greatest distribution/publicity/fan base. Kudos to shrapnel, kudos to Aaron, and I intend now to go buy Dom II to show my support...(and I am going to buy another copy of SE4, since, if stocks really are going bye-bye I want a backup or one to give to a friend...)

Off MY soapbox...

Thanks,

Alarik

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

I never even got AROUND to combat..... played only 10 or 20 short turns or so before quitting and deinstalling.

[Psyringe]

Wow, this discussion finally got me out of lurking after 2 years. Let me contribute some facts that I think are still missing.

About Stratey First: As has already been said, they are controlled by the bankruptcy courts, however they have been bought by Silverstar Holdings recently and thus have a chance to get back on their feet now. However, if Aaron's decision was based on GalCiv's success (as Tim Brooks has hinted), then he really should have asked GalCiv's developers about their experiences with SF first. Actually, SF had very little to do with GalCivs success, which was mostly fueled by the MoO3 disaster, a GalCiv flyer inside the MoO3 box, Brad Wardell's publicity, and word of mouth spreading fast. Many games stores would not have ordered GalCiv from Strat First if their customers, on returning MoO3, hadn't asked them for it (because they had heard about the game from other sources). So Strat First's contribution to GalCiv's success was basically to provide the game for a market that already wanted it. The chances that this special situation can be repeated for Space Empires V are very slim.

Also, Strategy First did *not* pay the developers of GalCiv any royalties. There are also many other developers around the world who still wait to see a single dollar of their royalties from Strat First. Personally, I would be very careful to get into the business with them - not only because they went bankrupt once (this can happen, sometimes even when you *did* everything right), but because of their attitude to their developers during this period. Some developers still complain that they have not been warned about the problems and that they have plainly been lied to by Strat First officials. I know that people can learn from their mistakes and I honestly don't know whether the same people are still involved in SF's management, but based on their previous record I'd really be careful.

That said, I think that Aaron really *does* have a chance to strike (or have struck) a good deal with Strat First. They must be rather desperately trying to rebuild their reputation among the customers (many of whom are disappointed by Strat First because of games which have not been properly patched or finished due to developers revoking their contracts after receiving no money from SF). Enlisting the developer of a successful, established 4x sci-fi strategy series might be just what SF needs now. This should give (have given) Aaron a lot of leverage in the discussions with them, and I hope he used that.

Let's hope for the best.

Also, as a response to the last posts above: I think there's really no need for bashing GalCiv here, as there's really next to no connection between GalCiv and Strat First despite the fact that Strat First distributed the game into retail (not via digital download, this was done by Stardock themselves) and refused to pay royalties. Also, I think that Space Empires and GalCiv are both very good examples of the 4x genre, and they complement each other nicely because they focus on different aspects. Personally, I'm glad we have both games.