(Shocking) News!!!!!

[Psyringe]

Wow, this discussion finally got me out of lurking after 2 years. Let me contribute some facts that I think are still missing.

About Stratey First: As has already been said, they are controlled by the bankruptcy courts, however they have been bought by Silverstar Holdings recently and thus have a chance to get back on their feet now. However, if Aaron's decision was based on GalCiv's success (as Tim Brooks has hinted), then he really should have asked GalCiv's developers about their experiences with SF first. Actually, SF had very little to do with GalCivs success, which was mostly fueled by the MoO3 disaster, a GalCiv flyer inside the MoO3 box, Brad Wardell's publicity, and word of mouth spreading fast. Many games stores would not have ordered GalCiv from Strat First if their customers, on returning MoO3, hadn't asked them for it (because they had heard about the game from other sources). So Strat First's contribution to GalCiv's success was basically to provide the game for a market that already wanted it. The chances that this special situation can be repeated for Space Empires V are very slim.

Also, Strategy First did *not* pay the developers of GalCiv any royalties. There are also many other developers around the world who still wait to see a single dollar of their royalties from Strat First. Personally, I would be very careful to get into the business with them - not only because they went bankrupt once (this can happen, sometimes even when you *did* everything right), but because of their attitude to their developers during this period. Some developers still complain that they have not been warned about the problems and that they have plainly been lied to by Strat First officials. I know that people can learn from their mistakes and I honestly don't know whether the same people are still involved in SF's management, but based on their previous record I'd really be careful.

That said, I think that Aaron really *does* have a chance to strike (or have struck) a good deal with Strat First. They must be rather desperately trying to rebuild their reputation among the customers (many of whom are disappointed by Strat First because of games which have not been properly patched or finished due to developers revoking their contracts after receiving no money from SF). Enlisting the developer of a successful, established 4x sci-fi strategy series might be just what SF needs now. This should give (have given) Aaron a lot of leverage in the discussions with them, and I hope he used that.

Let's hope for the best.

Also, as a response to the last posts above: I think there's really no need for bashing GalCiv here, as there's really next to no connection between GalCiv and Strat First despite the fact that Strat First distributed the game into retail (not via digital download, this was done by Stardock themselves) and refused to pay royalties. Also, I think that Space Empires and GalCiv are both very good examples of the 4x genre, and they complement each other nicely because they focus on different aspects. Personally, I'm glad we have both games.

[Desert Fox]

I think Aaron would be better off seeking out Stardock and its TotalGaming.net subscription service to distribute the game. Strategy First is not very stable at all. This company that publishes SEIV and other titles is not very good at all. Never sold in stores or downloadable makes it very costly for anyone to get it in other countries. A South Africa mate of mine has to pay 65.00 to get SEIV.

This bashing Galciv is silly, two entirely different games at least on how they look and play. I LOVE both games and I find any negative comments toward Galciv or the GREAT Company who produced it is damn right stupid. Both games are outstanding. Sharpnel Games is not a very good company at all as many of their games are not, well popular. No offense to this fine site..

[Richard]

Desert Fox said:
I think Aaron would be better off seeking out Stardock and its TotalGaming.net subscription service to distribute the game. Strategy First is not very stable at all. This company that publishes SEIV and other titles is not very good at all. Never sold in stores or downloadable makes it very costly for anyone to get it in other countries. A South Africa mate of mine has to pay 65.00 to get SEIV.

This bashing Galciv is silly, two entirely different games at least on how they look and play. I LOVE both games and I find any negative comments toward Galciv or the GREAT Company who produced it is damn right stupid. Both games are outstanding. Sharpnel Games is not a very good company at all as many of their games are not, well popular. No offense to this fine site..

Well your entitled to your opinion, most of our games our multi award winning games in the industry and sell very well.

As far as the pricing issue, we did have some issues with pricing overseas when SE:IV first came out but those have long since been resolved. You can get it shipped in 3-7 days for 4.80 in shipping costs. We also have retail and mail order alternatives for many countries. In fact we have the largest non traditional retail distribution network of any online publisher.

Just wanted to set the record straight on that.

[tesco samoa]

you just need to start selling the game in canadian dollars

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

Apart from SEIV/Shrapnel sites, I have seen NO marketing AT ALL for the game. No ads, banners, whatever.

OK, so I may be wrong, but at least SE has received less makretingn than MOO, and MOO is more of a mainstream game.

[Richard]

StrategiaInUltima said:
Apart from SEIV/Shrapnel sites, I have seen NO marketing AT ALL for the game. No ads, banners, whatever.

OK, so I may be wrong, but at least SE has received less makretingn than MOO, and MOO is more of a mainstream game.

We have done a ton of marketing for SE:IV but over time you spend less marketing effort on a 4+ year old game. Just because folks spend a lot of money on advertising doesn't mean it's smart. We have run ads in the major gaming magazines before but have found them to have little impac on sales. We ran banners for SE:IV for years on most of the major gaming sites, that is until the ROI on banner ads went through the floor.

We have also used a lot of non traditional methods to market SE:IV and all of our games. I won't go into all of them because they are trade secrets

[David E. Gervais]

David takes out his 'SFI rumor-mill gossip coin' and flips it,.. "WTH? Tails again! I'm getting tired of seeing only one side of the 'coin'"

I sure wish SFI would spill the beans and let the public know what their side of the story is,.. I find it strange that they go through serious finacial trouble (mainly due to in-house development and 'government contracts' forcing them to 'Create-new-jobs' in order to stay in business), and just when things are looking bright an 'outside developer' (who shall remain nameless in order not to spread bad news or tarnish their reputation) milks SFI for over $800,000 and that consequences of that saw 108 people loose their jobs and a number of 'other' developers saw their royalties seemingly go up in smoke. I understand their frustration, but there is absolutely no evidence that SFI is not trying to 'make-good' on those contracts. There has been no 'bankruptcy' declared or contracts deemed null and void. SFI filed for 'Bankruptcy-protection' which means that they have the chance to do everything in their power to make things right. getting rid of the in-house development (cash monkey) has greatly improved SFI's financial standing, in december they started showing a positive cash flow, it may not be enough to pay off 'ALL' their debts, but it is a step in the right direction.

Here's a scenario,.. in 3-4 months when things are going good and SFI manages to 'make-good' on their old contracts will those developers that are currently fueling 'negative press' be able to go back in time and say oops? Nope, and what is worse, never getting paid or being paid late. I think that if SFI was the 'Bad Company' that everyone makes it out to be they could have thrown in the towel long ago (when they were actually showing 'millions' of dollars in profit) and taken the money and ran. the fact that they are doing everything in their power to 'make-good' on their contracts says alot about integrty. The fact that they have also refused to enter the 'character-assination' game and bad mouth the people responsible for their financial woes is another sign of integrity.

Yes they have had extreme financial difficulties, but that was not by design or any mallicious intent. Stardock is as much a victim as SFI, so are many other fine developers. SFI is doing everything in it's power to turn things around and I for one believe they will succeed. One sign that they are succeedign at turning things around is this news..

Silverstar to Aquire SFI

This is not bad news, this is good news, it will help the company by opening up new avenues an in turn make future expansion into new markets available.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm really sick if hearing one side of the coin. and everything I said here is only a tiny part of the 'flip-side' I'm not in a position to know all the details, but what I know goes a long way to explaining why I'm optimistic about the future of SE5.

Nuf said,..

Cheers!

EDIT: this is not in response to Richard's post but to the negative press that has been spilled throughout this thread.

[sachmo]

Richard said:

We have also used a lot of non traditional methods to market SE:IV and all of our games. I won't go into all of them because they are trade secrets

No need to spill the beans.
I have personally sold at least 3 copies of SEIV for you...word of mouth works best!

That, and good reviews from people who care. Like underdogs.org...

[Tim Brooks]

Joint_Chief_StrategiaInUltima said:
Apart from SEIV/Shrapnel sites, I have seen NO marketing AT ALL for the game. No ads, banners, whatever.

Wow! That's amazing, and proves the point doesn't it. If we spent tens of thousands on those things and you didn't see them, then how effective are they?

Mainstream games that do well at retail have to be advertised differently than niche products -- even niche products at retail must be advertised differently. A publisher who pays $18,000 for a full page ad in CGW, to reach (based on CGW's stats) less than 15,000 people who are actally interested in the game, well they are just setting themselves up for bankruptcy, er disappoinment.

The reality is, I would bet that those that read CGW and are interested in a niche game with art budgets in the $ thousands (not $ millions!), difficult interface, and micromanagement features are way less than 15,000 people.

As for banner ads, well, they just don't work anymore. They haven't for over 4 years now. When we first started in 1999, we could advertise by banners, pay $200 - $500 for 300,000 impressions and get a click thru rate of 7.5% (that brought us about 22,000 clicks which turns into about 330 sales). Now the sites worth advertising on want $8,000 for those 300,000 impressions and the click thru rates are under .5% (that brings us less than 1500 clicks which turns into about 23 sales). So yea, lets do that!

We do alot of marketing, in non-tradtional ways, that get us the returns for our investments. How did you hear about SEIV? I know we have run polls before asking this question, and the top answer is word of mouth (a friend told me, I saw it in a forum or user group discussion, my friend at work was playing it, etc.). One of the hardest things we have to contend with regarding developers is to explain that word of mouth just doesn't happen. Someone just didn't wake up one morning and go, "I have a giant urge to go discuss Space Empires IV - I've never heard of it before, don't even know what it is, but hey, I'll just go talk about it." They talk about it because they FOUND out about it. And that just doesn't happen. That is marketing that gets games to that point.

We don't discuss the many ways we market, because our competition isn't there - you won't find SF there - and we don't want then there. Hell, we want our competition paying $18,000 for ads that don't reach their market.

[NullAshton]

I think I discovered SE when searching for free games. Looked at it, decided to try it, liked it but didn't want to buy it because it was shareware. Then space empires 4 came, and I got it!