PPB is the best weapon in the game. Discuss.

[CW]

For me, nothing beats a Virus III plus a heavy mount Allegiance Subverter!

[rdouglass]

IMO, it is more important to fire first than what weapons you have.... Things being relatively equivalent (ship size, tech levels - not necessarily weapon types), the empire firing first usually will win (unless of course the ship was poorly designed). To me, this firing first seems to be a bigger factor in the outcome of strategic combat than the weapon types.

Having said that, I think PPB's are best for early - mid games and WMG's in the mix for later games.

[Q]

Dragonlord I used your design in the simulator against a very similar battle cruiser, where I just replaced the PPB by APB XII (6x heavy mount) and the stealth armor and 5x armor III by phased shield V (2x). In all my simulations so far your design was destroyed. Sorry but I think in the late game PPB are not any more the weapon of choice against other ships. It is however still very effective against fighters, because they do not have phased shields.

[Rich04]

Dragonlord I think most of the people posting here are talking about strategic combat. Basing their experiences on PBW.
I ran your designs vs the designs on the recent 'Close Combat Ships' topic. Your PPB ship lost every time to CW's 'Ripper Beam Ship' and Taqwus's 'Null Space Combo' designs. <To be fair it did beat many other posted design's >
So it isn't even the best at close combat.
PPB's are also very vulnerable to special racial techs.
I am still unconvinced PPB's are the ultimate weapon.
On using starategic combat 'fleet tactics' can make a huge difference. I know this first hand. In a recent PBW game, I lost my first few engagements vs enemy fleets. As other fleets engaged I tried different formations/strategies. Eventually I found the right mix for my fleets and soon they were winning. Nothing else had changed, if anything the enemy fleets had the advantage due to their recent victories (experience). Fleet mixes were the same. Went from only destroying 1-2 ships to only losing 1-2 ships. These were battles with fleets 30-40 ships in size.

[geoschmo]

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Originally posted by Dragonlord:
* Range - not as relevant as you would think. Sure some other weapons have better range, and they'll get in the first shot. Then they just sit there for a turn or two to reload while the PPB ship closes in and kills them. Plus your initial shot probably misses because of the accuracy penalty of long range weapons.

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Sorry man, but you are way off here. Assuming equal ship sizes, speed, etc, weapon range is not only just as "relevant as I think", it's the ONLY thing that matters.

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Fact remains that nothing beats the PPB as a direct fire weapons measured in damage/kiloton/turn. (see table that was reposted). Plus they are cheap to research.

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Now here I can't disagree with you one bit. In fact I am even more of a PBB fan for early/mid game since I found myself in a game recently with meson bLaster III's facing ships with PBB V's. Doh! But if you stop researching weapons after reaching PBB V, you won't Last long.

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Plus remember that I am talking about Strategic combat, so no dancing in and out of range manually. And if your opponent has such a tech advantage that his *combat* speed is so much bigger than yours that he can shoot, move away, and be far enough for you not to be able to move within your PPB weapons range.... then you're toast anyway.

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LOL. Dude, you must not have recognized my nick here. I am geoschmo, or as some people call me "Mr. PBW", at least my wife does. Not saying I am good or anything. I've been beat more than my share. But all I play is strategic combat. I'm not even sure I remember how to fight in tactical. laf.

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* Phased shields? By the time I think an opponent might have them I just add some shield depleters to the mix.

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But, why do that if PBB V's are the ONLY weapon worth researching? You're arguing my point here guy. Puke does a better job defending phased shields than I could. I would just be repeating what he said.

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*WMG: see above. Not as good as PPB. Longer range (so what?) long reload time, expensive to research, and less damage per kiloton per turn than a PPB.

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I agree. the long reload time on WMG makes them almost worthless.

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Geoschmo, I'd love to take you up on that challenge.

OK here is a sample ship design (by heart, don't know if I used all space available in the hull)...

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This isn't even hard. I don't even have to try this one. Your design is almost identical to one I tested prior to making my challange. As the other guy says, simply replace all the PBB with APB XII's, and your ship gets toasted almost every time. And if you throw in a religous tailsman, it gets beat 100% of the time.

My challange is unbeatable by PBB. There may be another weapon that can beat my challange, but it isn't PBB. Sorry.

Geoschmo

[Nitram Draw]

One thing to remember about range is you must have sensors/experiance for it to be an advantage. At range 10 any standard weapon has 0% to hit if no other modifiers come into play. Also as pointed out below, he who fires/hits first usually wins. I'd rather have a hip with a lot of PPB's than a few WMG once you start taking damage. All in all I think PPB's are the best direct fire weapon to base your fleet around but you definately need variety to win consistently.

[geoschmo]

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Originally posted by Nitram Draw:
One thing to remember about range is you must have sensors/experiance for it to be an advantage. At range 10 any standard weapon has 0% to hit if no other modifiers come into play. Also as pointed out below, he who fires/hits first usually wins. I'd rather have a hip with a lot of PPB's than a few WMG once you start taking damage. All in all I think PPB's are the best direct fire weapon to base your fleet around but you definately need variety to win consistently.

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Correct, but the same penalties apply to the PBB. All other things being equal, if one ship has greater range in weapons, they will win the majority of the time.

I don't like WMG either personally. And I agree with you about PBB's up through the mid game. But they get passed up later on. And you will too if you stop researching weapons and stay with PBB V's for the rest of the game. Unless you can beat your enemies before they can get the better weapons.

Geoschmo