Are we paying more for less?

[Leif_-]

Dominions 3 is basically Dominions 2 supercharged, so if you prefer the Total War games to Dominions 2, I don't see why you're even asking the question. Skip Dominions 3 and buy the next Total War game instead.

[Nerfix]

Mltdwn said:Basically what makes Dom3 "better" in terms of features and gameplay?

MTW:2 is a historical wargame, Dominions 3 is a fantasy game. That's a pretty big difference to begin with. I don't think we can directly compare the two.

In MTW you might get to control the units directly, but in Dominions 3 you have to carefuly plot the battles beforehand. You can't wring your way with what often are cheapo tactical exploits.

In MTW you have to deal with the Popet, Jihads, Briberies etc. In Dominions 3 you have to deal with unrelenting pretender gods.

In MTW you build crossbowmen. In Dominions 3 you build some crossbowmen and some sacred flagellants that can be Blessed, and then you recruit a With Hunter who can cast magic and use priest spells to lead them...you also summon some Fire Drakes as support, and put a gem on the witch hunter so he can cast Flame Arrows to support the crossbowmen. All the while when your enemy will be massing Pale Ones who are tragicaly weak to arrows but he will also bring some Longdead chaff that are however weak to Banishment your Witch Hunter can use...

In MTW you recruit assasins and get heirs. In Dominions 3 you recruit mages and you have to carefuly think where you can use their skills, in or out of battle, will you research Construction spells or Evocations. Or will you instead build some priests to spread your Dominion and banish undead monster. Or perhaps you will recruit a mage and appoint him as your Prophet.

In MTW you pick on of the historical countries and then LOL as your king racks up funny vices. In Dominions you pick one of uncommon fantasy empires it has such as undead with Roman flavour or Indian inspired civilization. Then you design a pretender god who has his or her own weaknesses and effects on the land and how your sacred units will be blessed. Then you LOL as your pretender racks up afflictions, Curse, Horror Marks and such unless you are careful.

And so on. The differences are huge. It's a matter of taste which you will prefer in the end. I've never enjoyed MTW as much as I enjoy Dominions. Perhaps you are my opposite in this respect.

[GamerMan12]

Limited features??!! :

* Turn-based fantasy 4X gaming with up to twenty-one (AI or human) players using simultaneous turns.
* Still an amazing amount of player choices in one turn: recruit, research, empowerment, forge, rituals, magic battles, search, prayers, blood hunt, luck, assassinations, friendly movement, movement, storm castle, enchantments, magic items, sneak, build, special orders, income, starvation, upkeep, dominion, site effects, heal, mercs, and scouting.
* Three different eras: Early Magical Era, Middle Era, and Late Era. The Early Magical Era boasts many new nations, the Middle Era features most of the nations from Dominions 2, and the Late Era features an emphasis on more conventional warfare and less magic.
* Fifty different playable nations. Some of the new nations include Ermor, New Faith, based on the early Republic of Rome. Marverni, inspired by Gallic tribes. Kailasa, Rise of the Ape Kings, inspired from Indian and Hindu mythology. Jomon, Human Daimyos, born from ancient Japan.
* Brand new graphics, with an overhauled and streamlined interface. Transparent mechanics decreases
the learning curve.
* Less micromanagement than previous Dominions titles.
* Random map creation.
* Players can design and save gods for later play.
* Map filters now allow players to easily locate scouts.
* Nation specific spells and summons. More than 600 spells and 300 magic items, all with evocative descriptions, are found in the game.
* Rebalanced rates for income, supply, and resources enable larger conventional armies.
* 1500+ units to wage war with. A deep combat model encompasses everything from battlefield morale to the use of magic.
* An already challenging AI made even more challenging. If you can't handle the unrelenting computer player, you can always try your hand at playing against humans with Dominions 3 robust multiplayer suite.
* Much more powerful modding capabilities.
* Make and remake nations as you see fit!
* Still present, the cool ability to turn any image into a map! Battle across Faerún or Middle Earth!
* Choose if your pretending god is dormant or awake when the game begins.
* New music from Erik Ask Uppmark and Anna Rynefors, the duo behind Dominion 2's lilting musical score.
* Taxes and unrest automatically checked through the autotax function, streamlining play.
* Playable on most major operating systems. Play it on a Windows, Mac, or Linux machine.
* Dominions 3: The Awakening could very easily be the last fantasy 4X game you ever need.

GM12

[Nerfix]

Not to mention units can rack up afflictions from battle or old age, get insane etc etc etc. So much features... >:3

[JaydedOne]

Mltdwn said:
OK answer me this, what features and abilities does Dom3 add that M2TW doesn't? I'm trying to compare the two and decide which I should invest my money into because other than the "magic" aspect I really can't see what Dom3 brings to the table that is different or better... From what I understand the diplomatic functioning is much more limited due to being primarily a go to war with everyone game, the politics aspect is largely non-existant due to the nature of the game (as opposed to having to deal with the Church, the various other nobles, Crusades, Jihads, Briberies, assassinations, etc.), and the combat is largely more of simply choose the right groups and outnumber the enemies hoping for good enough "rolls" rather than being able to use actual tactics like flanking, luring, ambushes, etc.

Basically what makes Dom3 "better" in terms of features and gameplay?

Let's set aside for a moment that all of the tactics you mention are present in the game, albeit not always as a simple button that you press. We're not here to convince you that Dom3 is a "better" game. As I said, it's apples and oranges and I'd laugh off anyone who tried to sell me Civilization on the premise that it was a "better" game than Dominions.

Play the demo. See if you think it's worth the price. If it is, I'll play a game with you and talk it over here. If not, then perhaps you'll have better luck with M2.

Cheers either way.

[Taqwus]

Among the more obvious differences are the heavy multiplayer and the pre-battle formations and scripting (think about it: tactical battles do not make sense in a 21-player game).

There are a *lot* of battlefield tactics which emerged for D2, many of which required significant preparation to be able to use in terms of mage selection, troop selection, magic items, and research, in addition to the obvious pre-battle assignment of orders and unit placement. Hell, there's everything from mass-exploding (Phoenix Pyre'd) reinvigorating Communicants to flying armies and storm/lightning-zapping the battlefield, to mass enslavement and super-combatants.

In terms of strategic depth, there's supply contraints (including a high-level abstraction of supply lines through the fortress contribution traced through friendly provinces), -substantial- research that offers lots of variety...

[Mltdwn]

OK let me ask this question then and thanks for all of the input... Does the game essentially come down to (like in Dom2) wipe out all of the opponents to be the victor, OR is there other win options you can accomplish (i.e. Control 50 provinces which must include provinces x, y and Z...) plus the ability to enter into diplomatic relations with other nations/gods in an attempt to subvert their or other gods powers (i.e. making a deal of say "ok I'll open trade with you IF you go to war and begin attacking this other nation), stuff like that or does it largely come down to just wipe out the opposition?

Edit: Essentially what I am inquiring is this, does it esentially come down, like Dom2 to a brute force type game?

[Nerfix]

There's other win options, at least in Dom 2 there was.

If I remember correctly these options were:
- Total conquest OR victory by eradicating all enemy Dominion
- Research victory
- Victory through control of victory points
- Victory through dominion
- Victory through getting a certain number of provinces

And the victory conditions don't exclude each other, you could eradicate everybody in a research victory game and win.

You can't enter diplomatic relations. If this a game breaker for you, then it is.

[Archonsod]

I don't think there is a game similar to Dominions. The only thing I can see MTW and Dom3 having in common is the fact that you spend your turn moving on the strategy map, then have a battle at the end of it. But then, the same thing can be said of Rise of Nations or Cossacks 2, and both are radically different from total war.

One thing to consider though - since Shrapnel are unlikely to lower the price, it makes sense to get Dom3 now. Not only is MTWII likely to be half price in the January sales, but your likely to be able to pick it up with the inevitable expansion for less than you'll pay on day of release.

[Endoperez]

The victory conditions have existed since DomII (control 50 provinces, control 3 spesific provinces, etc), but they currently can't be combined (control at least 50 provinces AND 3 spesific provinces). That would be a nice addition, though.

There is some really simple diplomatic-style stuff (e.g. if you have strong forces where an AI can see, he's less likely to attack you), but winning the games under the settings most often used fall down to conquering provinces, with armies, mages and/or ritual spells.