Are we paying more for less?

[Bloodstar2]

Thank you Annete,

I am sorry for harsh words and I will reply with my view of this situation later. I will be nice and not use any ugly word.

Yes, I have supported Shrapnel in the past and would like that this would be in the future.


Mario

[PhilD]

Bloodstar2 said:

PRICE IS SET TOO HIGH. PERIOD. All arguments that I have read are in vain.

OK, if this is the axiom, then you are most certainly right; it does follow that the price is set too high. Doesn't leave much room for discussion, though.

There are several possible definitions for a price. For a PC game, I'd say that "player entertainment" should be a major factor in deciding what a "right" price should be. I think it's safe to assume that players won't play a PC game much longer than it provides entertainment (or else, something is definitely wrong with them). Thus, the time one spends playing a given game is a reasonable factor in deciding whether the price is "right" (though absolutely not the only one).

If you intend to spend the same amount of time playing Heroes V as Dom3, then weigh them against each other in "entertainment per hour"; if you get more enjoyment per hour with Heroes V, then maybe your best game for this time is Heroes V, and there is nothing wrong with that. I bought it, played each campaign once, and basically lost interest. I don't consider my money badly spent, but if Dom2 is any indication, I expect to get much more playing time out of Dom3 than Heroes V.

[Meglobob]

The price is set too high?

Not if u live in the UK. Over here, a new release at the top end of the price range is 29.99 - 34.99 pounds. Dom 3 cost 34.10 pounds, that included the USPS delivery charge. So at the top end of the bareable market price but not over.

Considering the sheer depth of the game, I have really only scratched the surface of 2 nations yet, its well worth every pound or $.

U r buyin a top quality product with Dom 3, u always have to pay for quality.

[Talleyrand]

I've put in an order for the full game, which says a lot considering my earlier posts on the matter. I played the demo a great deal and enjoyed my time with it. However, I still agree with Mario and my original assessment that the game is not worth 55 dollars. One major reason is the animations in battle are extremely choppy and units seems to warp to and fro. If battles weren't such a central theme in the game, ie you could win through other means, it wouldn't bother me so much. As it stands though, battles are the only way to win and as such I think more time could have been taken in unit animations to make things more fluid.

The music, however, is top notch. I can't stay enough good things about it. The number of unique countries and their individual histories and cultures is also pretty amazing, and kudos to Illwinter for coming up with them. That together with the number of spells and items, plus the knowledge from Dominions 2 that the price would never fall, made me go ahead and put in an order now. Like Mario though I have little respect for Shrapnel games and will never go out of my way to support them as publishers, ever. Domonions 3 and possibly whatever game Illwinter decides they will create next will get my money but nothing else Shrapnel supports will I look at. I helped you guys with your porche payments this month but you're on your own for the next months.

[Kristoffer O]

Hmm, thanks for the positive feedback on Dråm and Illwinters behalf, but I must say that I find your dislike for shrapnel somewhat confusing. You disrespect them for raising the price tag by 5 dollars. The difference in the maual is actually worth more than that. Take my word on it. I wrote the old one (or most of it).

So if you dislike Shrapnel I think it is better if you don't say that in this way on their forums. Be constructive instead. Say that you will not buy games with price tags that high, instead of saying that you won't by from Shrapnel because you think thay suck. The first might make them listen, the other might ban you from their forum. I would not be too fond of you if I was the target in your post.

[DominionsFan]

Personally I still say, that if someone refuse to pay 55$ [which is a ridicolously small amount of money] to buy the best TBS available..it is too bad...for HIM!

[Frostmourne27]

Hmmmm... who was it that said "anything is worth what the market will pay for it"?

Dominions 3 may be priced more highly than many of us think is really reasonable, especially for a small game, but they aren't the market. Neither are those of use who think it's a good deal. The market is everyone that could conceivably consider purchasing the game (that includes us, but there are WAY more than the couple hundred or so people that lair within these forums.) Dominions 3 set records with shrapnel sales for number of copies sold. Not knowing how big the market is, its hard to say what percent of people that looked at/will look at it bought it, but since so many did, and the market isn't HUGE, as this is a bit of a niche game, it kind of makes me think that most people that consider buying the game either buy it, or don't because they don't like the demo/the combat/the concept etcetera.

I seriously doubt the many of the thousands of people who will buy the game will really give the price a whole lot of consideration. Either it's a good game and they buy it, or it's a piece of EA-like trash and they won't - for most people, you need to change the price quite a lot before they actually don't buy something. Going the other way, you don't have to change the price quite as much maybe, but you lose a LOT of money.

Now for some ugly, unpleasant mathematics (Yuck!):
Assuming that Shrapnel sells three thousand copies of Dominions 3(I'm pulling numbers out of the air here, I think the real figure is a LOT higher) at 55$, they make 165 000 dollars less expenses, including the insane cost of printing the 300 page manual (printing is a VERY lucrative business). If they [Shrapnel Games] lower the price even one dollar, the make only 162 000 dollars -they need to sell 56 extra copies to recoup their loss of profit. But now one cares about one dollar - So let's say that they lower prices by ten dollars. Are they going to find the 666.66 new buyers they need to make it worth it? Possibly, but I really doubt it. Whether or not the game is good value for its price as compared to other purchases is irrelevant - Shrapnel is making money, and we can hardly expect them to be stupid - they should maximize their profits since that’s how the western style free market economy works.
However, if time spent enjoying your self per cent spent is your concern, I say two things: 1) You care too much about economics, and 2) Dominions 3 probably isn't worth it, but I doubt that ANY computer games really are. Bloodstar, I REALLY doubt that anyone will spend 1000 hours playing Heroes 5 - that’s like three hours a day, FOR EVERY DAY OF THE YEAR! (Do you have a life? A family? a job? Do you sleep?) That said, I doubt anyone will play Dominions 3 for 1000 hours either. And about the manual - we really should shut up about it. No offence to Bruce, but really - were buying a game, not a book. It's nice to have a good manual, BUT ITS NOT A SELLING POINT! Very few people look at two strategy games and say Oooo- this one has a nicer manual, I think I'll take it. Evidence: EA sells games, and their manuals, like their games, are crap.

Sorry if my tone is a little offensive, and my thoughts incoherent...

[Talleyrand]

Thanks for your concern, Kris, but I don't care much for Shrapnel's fondness of me. I call it like I see it. If I get banned, then fare thee well.

[Valandil]

There is actually another concern. In order to expand the market, therby allowing more future buisness, and in order to retain the existing consumer base, shrapnel also needs to price slightly below optimal return. Of course this is only true if illwinter/shrapnel continue to make/sell games, but I consider this likely.

[Archonsod]

Why? It's actually slightly cheaper than most new releases, at least in UK pricing. EA don't seem to have a problem selling games at £30, and they're not exactly looking at a shrinking market...