what are the advantages of TCP/IP

Captain Kwok · #1 December 6th, 2001, 09:24 PM

Mr SJ,

What would happen say, if you're already in a tatical combat and someone else decides to attack you in another system? What would happen then?

geoschmo · #2 December 6th, 2001, 09:39 PM

Good point Kwok. But even beyond that SJ, we aren't saying you couldn't do it. Just that it wouldn't be very practical. It wouldn't be very fast and that's what TCP/IP is supposed to be about.

But if you don't care about the speed and the tactical combat is your reason for wanting TCP/IP, then I can see your point. I just haven't heard any indication from Aaron that it's even being considered. Although I am by no means in close contact with Aaron so the fact that I haven't heard it means nothing.

Geo

tesco samoa · #3 December 11th, 2001, 07:42 PM

TCPIP is not about speed it is about connectivity.

Sim game with tatical combat would be perfect.

Options like Set turn lenght and Last person to complete turn nag. You could have a clock counting down on the screen to let you know how much time you have left to complete your orders. Ships move out and combat occurs on what day the combatants meet.

When combat is about to start you are given the option of computer resolve, surrender or tatical combat. All combat between each empire is queed up and completed. If their is more than one battle between completed different empires say a-b and c-d then the two battles take place at the same computer time.This contines until the end of the month. Empires E and F have no combat so they can work on their turn or chat etc...

That would be a tcpip game. You do not play SEIV for a quick game.

So the ablility to save the game and carry it on at a later date would be very important.

P.S. Could this forum look into adding a spell check ???

Krakenup · #4 December 11th, 2001, 08:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by tesco samoa:
tatical ... lenght ... tatical ... queed ... their ... completed ... contines ... ablility

P.S. Could this forum look into adding a spell check ???

Sure, happy to help!

tactical ... length ... tactical ... queued ... there (wrong word) ... completely (wrong word?) ... continues ... ability

Phoenix-D · #5 December 11th, 2001, 09:07 PM

"What would happen say, if you're already in a tatical combat and someone else decides to attack you in another system? What would happen then?"

Then it waits. In sequentual, this isn't even an issue.

In sim-move, it could be, but given the option to go strategic (and an option to go strategic only if the other player selects the same) should help for things like unarmed colony ship warping into a close-in WP defense, to speed it up a bit.

Phoenix-D

geoschmo · #6 December 11th, 2001, 09:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Options like Set turn lenght and Last person to complete turn nag. You could have a clock counting down on the screen to let you know how much time you have left to complete your orders. Ships move out and combat occurs on what day the combatants meet.

Starting to sound like a real-time game. Not that that is bad mind you. Just not what Space Empires has ever been.

quote:
When combat is about to start you are given the option of computer resolve, surrender or tatical combat. All combat between each empire is queed up and completed. If their is more than one battle between completed different empires say a-b and c-d then the two battles take place at the same computer time.This contines until the end of the month. Empires E and F have no combat so they can work on their turn or chat etc...

Ok, but the only way to make this happen is to turn Space Empires into a real time game. You cannot allow c-d to do anything with their empires while A and c are fighting otherwise. Here's why...

Say A and B are allies and both at war with C. C sends a fleet to attack A's planet but is intercepted one sector away by fleet belonging to B. So if C wins the battle he goes on and wipes out the colony of A. If B wins the battle the colony is spared. If all this is supposed to be happening in the same turn, how can A be allowed to make changes to his empire and give orders to the colony until he knows the results of the battle between B and C.

This is the definition of a turn based game. And the reason turn based games have had phases (orders phase, movement phase, combat phase, etc.) since they were played with paper/pencils and dice.

Again, I am not saying your idea is bad. It sounds cool. I would love to play tactical against other humans. But I don't like real time games. That's a personal preferance. In a turn based game like Space Empires, you can't have tactical combat without...

1. Sitting at the same computer. (Hotseat)
2. Playing a two player only game.
3. Having everyone not personally involved in the combat sitting idle.

Geoschmo

[ 11 December 2001: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[ 11 December 2001: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

DirectorTsaarx · #7 December 11th, 2001, 10:47 PM

It sounds like tesco is describing the Civilization series of games (or at least the FreeCiv Version) and/or MOO3. Both systems have a "Last player nag" feature, etc. Granted, Civ has VERY simple combat, so tactical combat isn't much of an issue. And MOO3 is set up to discourage if not prevent tactical combat (ISTR reading you could use "Focus Points" to take control of combats, but I don't know if that was only in single-player mode).

In any case, tesco's suggestions are similar to other turn-based strategy games with simultaneous turns. I have to disagree with geoschmo's assertion that the suggested features are more for "real-time" games. As far as the result of a tactical combat affecting other empires (like whether a particular fleet could go on to destroy a planet), ISTM the only thing lost would be time spent queuing up orders, since the orders wouldn't be carried out until the end of the turn anyway, and (if I'm reading all this correctly), the tactical combats are essentially taking place "between" the simultaneous turns (defining a "turn" as the time when a player can issue orders, and "between" turns is when orders are carried out). Under tesco's plan, players not involved in tactical combat just get to start their "turn" early. We could either make the game user-friendly and not allow a player to issue orders involving systems where combat is taking place, or let the player find out the hard way and avoid those systems on his own until after combat has been resolved.

Or maybe the players not directly involved in a tactical combat should take advantage of the time to get a drink, answer the call of nature, talk to their significant others, etc.

Edit: Some players may already have to "sit idle" and wait for others, just because they have far less to do in a given turn; I ran into this problem in FreeCiv since my gaming group had one player who ended up creating twice as many cities as the rest of us, and micromanaged everything to death, so we were constantly waiting for him to finish his turn. Tactical combat just makes the problem more likely...

[ 11 December 2001: Message edited by: DirectorTsaarx ]