Epic Heroes Mod MA game(finished)

Xietor · #1 June 1st, 2007, 05:50 PM

I would be interested to see 18 of ulms fight 18 of mans summons if you get the opportunity.

Also, I do appreciate the input, it is only through challenge, discourse, and argument that the mod can be improved.

If everyone is politely silent, nothing will get changed. This upcoming game will be fun. Play any race that you think you will enjoy. There are some capable players in this game, as well as some newer players.

I designed all the heroes so that no race should be susceptible to a bum rush by Ulm or anyone else-if the players are equal in ability.

Out of curiousity, if the treant is so overpowered, why could the same result not be achieved with a titan pretender taking the same magic, and having all the slots to equip(treant has no hands, body, or feet).

Tuidjy · #2 June 1st, 2007, 08:16 PM

Oh, it is very much achievable :-) I do not remember the last time that I
played a pretender that did not have Water, Death and Nature and at least
one of Air or Earth :-) The problem is that it cost tons in scales. When
you receive the monster SC for free, you are allowed to get better scales
and let the pretender sleep a bit.

As for Man's summons, they are quite tough. But they are perfectly plausible
lore-wise. They have human stats, and well crafted equipment. Ulm's soldiers
have the stats of thugs and about 35 gems worth of equipment each.

---------

Results of testing. Ten times Ulm attacks, Man defends, no PD, Man gets to fire
twice before the squads are engaged. The commanders are on HOLDx5, stay behind.

10 battles, 10 victories for Ulm.
In six cases, no casualties for Ulm, full casualties for Man.
In two cases, no casualties for Ulm, three Man survivors.
In one case, one casualty for Ulm (lucky shot), no Man survivors.
In one case, Man got a lucky militia event. No casualties for Ulm, 59 dead Men.

The results speak for themselves. This was before the nerf. I'll test it
with v1.4 in a second...

---------------

With v1.4

casualties
4x 20 / 0
4x 20 / 1
1x 20 / 2
1x 19 / 1

What can I say? These guys have divine attack/defense/encumbrance.
Don't you think that you may want to nerf them a bit more, and buff the hero?

Xietor · #3 June 1st, 2007, 08:59 PM

Appreciate the feedback once again. I did actually expect Ulm would win, but I did expect Man to fare a tad better. Of course in a real showdown, even early, between Ulm and Man, Man would be bolstered by lighting casting mages, and Ulm by flying shards. Man would also have longbows, and i think they could dent even 21 protection.

And Beowulf is no slouch himself, though even your Treant likely would likely not survive 10 of Ulm's Black Order Soldiers. And to be quite frank, most prudent players would not risk an sc against Ulm's Black Order Soldiers unless their back was against the wall.

But I have done what i can for now, with respect to Ulm and other nations. If Ulm swallows the world in our game, then you will be proved correct. While i have yet to pick a race,
it is my belief that i can slow those babies down somehow!

Xietor · #4 June 1st, 2007, 09:07 PM

Please confirm that you are using the same race and pretender, or that you are going to send in a new pretender(no rush).

I just want to make sure everyone is on board with the restart.

If you are using the same race and pretender, you need do nothing except post that fact so llama can use your pretender he has on file.

My goal is to have the restart Monday Morning(earlier if everyone gets their confirmation or new picks sent in).

If you have a new pretender, you can mail it in. Llama emailed me to let me know he is aware of the restart and has reset the game.

LoloMo · #5 June 1st, 2007, 09:19 PM

I'll be using the same pretender as Agartha!

Dragonninjaakira · #6 June 2nd, 2007, 01:50 AM

Uploaded new pretender for C'tis.

Tuidjy · #7 June 2nd, 2007, 02:31 AM

I see that Pythium is taken. Has someone claimed them, or is it my
old pretender loaded? I entered this game because I wanted to try
Pythium in Dominions III while able to downplay a potential loss :-)

I would not mind trying something else if someone wants Pythium.
I am about to run two more tests with Ulm. If the results turn
as I expect, you'll see me propose alliance to Ulm on turn 1...

----------------------

Oh, and to maintain my reputation as a argumentative bastard:

> Because Smiths are generally not good battle mages early on.

When expansion is conducted with the starting troops and the free
thugs, and a starting SC pretender is not needed, Ulm can concentrate
on rapid infrastructure development. With Conj 3 and Const 3,
smiths are able to cast legions of steel, which makes many of
their troops nigh invulnerable to physical damage.

> Also, Ulm is limited to 3 Black Order Soldiers per turn,

Three free thugs which I would value at 10 gems a piece as troops,
and 25 gems a piece as commanders. If that's limited...

> and that means the Black Duke is not out searching for death magic
> sites,

The black duke has no business going out to search for sites.
Once Dark knowledge is researched (because of Summon Earthpower)
Ulm should trade for death gems, and spellsearch for death sites in
the likely provinces. With the expected rapid rate of expension,
they should have provinces where the scales indicate a death site.

> forging items

That comes later.

> or leading in battle.

Risking him in battle is insane. He should stay inside a patrolled
castle, with five thugs as bodyguards. He should be producing thugs
every turn he's not searching, forging or empowering.

Tuidjy · #8 June 1st, 2007, 09:41 PM

v1.4
Man: 40 summons, 62 longbowmen.
Ulm: 20 summons.
All commanders were supposed to stay out of the fight, but I had forgotten
Beowulf had an armour negating longbow and I needed him to lead the army.

Ulm wins with 9 casualties. Five of these courtesy of Beowulf's longbow.

jutetrea · #9 June 1st, 2007, 10:27 PM

Well, that's pretty brutal. If you've got a good test bed, can you try against F9W9 blessed Vans? or E9N9 blessed giants?

Brutal results, but its still unit to unit. If they handily defeat dual blessed troops then a change is needed. Yes its free points, but that's almost the point of the exercise... MA Ulm kind of sucks - maybe the extra points are needed, maybe they need a free "blessed" unit. If 20 dual blessed vans demolish 20 ulm summons, I still don't see a problem. Hell, if they're even I still don't see a problem. On the other hand, if the vans get demolished, it needs a change. I'd probably say 1:1 vans 2:1 giants 1:3 jags.

Do you have a specific test bed set up, or just using a basic map editor?

lch · #10 June 2nd, 2007, 06:45 AM

Quote:

jutetrea said:
If 20 dual blessed vans demolish 20 ulm summons, I still don't see a problem. Hell, if they're even I still don't see a problem.

20 dual blessed Helhirdings cost 20*75 = 1500 gold (don't know the numbers for Vans by heart) and thus 100 gold upkeep per turn aswell. Plus their recruitment is limited by dominion level. Do the free Ulm summons even take any upkeep?

I agree with Tuidjy, whenever you introduce something to the game you can't think "oh, those are pretty nice units, users would like to play with these", but "how bad is the chance for abuse if a user exploits this to the fullest?"
Looks like an Ulm player could just keep a low profile for a couple of turns and then bulldoze over anybody with a horde of free summons. That hardly sounds like fun.