Maenads and siege

Baalz · #1 August 14th, 2007, 12:14 PM

Yeah, in Afterthough it was quite amusing, Pangea went AI about halfway in due to being smushed between 3-4 hungry neighbors and the smallish empire (Argatha) that took their capital couldn't manage to break down the castle walls...but nobody ever got around to eating Argatha up. By the end of the game Pangea had one of the larger army graphs in the game despite being effectively eliminated relatively early. I don't know that this is so much a Pangean advantage but more an aggravation once they've already lost.

Jazzepi · #2 August 14th, 2007, 12:34 PM

Yeah I'm not really sure why I stayed in that game so long, but I enjoyed snatching up Pangea's capital.

It's funny, because I had 6 mages ready to spam blade wind and out of all the people sieging Pangea's different fortresses I think I was in the best position to take them. I couldn't start breaking down the walls until I got about 400-500 troops in that territory. I never did manage to knock them down.

Jazzepi

Kuritza · #3 August 15th, 2007, 06:22 AM

So, let me clarify myself.
I have no problem with Pangaea being hard to defeat and such. After all, having besieged enemy's capitol, you cripple him hard enough already. But its rather unfair for Pangaea's enemies - imagine being spawned close to aggressibe Pangaea, defeating it and stalemating for the rest of the game. Pangaea denies you a chance to win, simply by being there. Mind hunt may be not an option if Pangaea was clever enough to hire a lizard shaman (mind hunt isnt as uncounterable as VotD, har har).
I really felt for these monkeys. I think these maenads shouldnt spawn inside a besieged castle - they cannot get inside, after all, its besieged. Maybe let the spawned maenads attack the sieging army instead? It would be quite thematical - crazed maenads throwing themselves on these between them and the music that drives them with extasy.

Jazzepi · #4 August 15th, 2007, 07:56 AM

While I honestly don't think this problem is really an issue worth addressing, Maenad's could always have their status changed to mindless so that they'd count for 1/10th of their strength in defending the castle.

Jazzepi

Shovah32 · #5 August 15th, 2007, 08:03 AM

Well we all know how mindless women are

.

Kristoffer O · #6 August 15th, 2007, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Shovah32 said:
Well we all know how mindless women are

.

Actually there are some women on these forums. Not many, but I wouldn't mind if there were some more. This summer Illwinter have had an interm (if that is what it is called) working on the graphics for a new nation (expected in the patch after this one). She hasn't been active on the forum, but lurked a lot. I don't think she would mind this post in particular, but I think it is better if we don't expect all who read these forums to be male.

I hope you don't mind me saying this. It was not intended as a reprimand or anything.

Gandalf Parker · #7 August 15th, 2007, 03:58 PM

If we were talking about the maenads then it should have been how mindless the party women are

I want to be a Pan when I grow up.

Wyatt Hebert · #8 August 15th, 2007, 08:09 AM

Unless, of course, the Maenads were coming from the population in the walls. Besides, it's a game... some inconsistencies with 'realistic' behavior must be expected.

I truly fail to see the problem. It was a good point about the supplies being generated keeping some of the Maenads fed, but they WILL start starving. I'm actually curious what the break even point per Pan per Turmoil scale is.

Kuritza, it seems the problem you have is that it takes too many resources to actually take out Pangaea's capital under the conditions given, at least in multiplayer, i.e. it _could_ be done, but the amount of resources required at the stage it might be required is too high.

I am curious why you believe the investment too high. I am also curious why you say starting next to Pangaea would mean someone loses in MP (the same argument about double-bless rushes come to mind, btw). It seems to me that the argument is the resource drain required to keep them bottled up is enough to make you lose. Soo... what? It's rather interesting to me that people might not worry too much about Pangaea when they're active, but they'll make you lose in a siege?

Please, educate me as to what the issue really is?

Wyatt Hebert

Jazzepi · #9 August 15th, 2007, 08:24 AM

Actually, I'm really curious on how long they can maintain the upkeep on the Pan mages. I think you only get half the income of a territory that is under seige, so if you just drove the unrest up in their capital province with taxes at 200%, and it was the only one they had left, you could both starve out the maenads faster by making them disband the pan mages (which naturally provide food) AND cut off the supply of new maenads by getting rid of the pans.

Jazzepi

Kuritza · #10 August 15th, 2007, 08:41 AM

Wyatt, I just described the situation from one of our games. Monkeys defeated Pangaea, Pangaea turtled in its capitol and started skipping turns.
After that, monkeys couldnt neither defeat Pangaea nor leave it alone. Isnt it a lose-lose situation? With all the monkeys busy at the siege, he couldnt claim territories from other players or participate in politics other than by trading.
Frankly, when you win against any other nation, you get extra gem income etc. When you win against Pangaea, you get a headache. This is what I was saying.