Scripting Issue - Specifically Retreat Command

[capnq]

Jazzepi said: I don't see why a commander can't ignore a script that automatically results in their own death.

Because the AI isn't smart enough to recognize the difference between "automatically" dying and "probably" or "possibly" dying.

I'm having trouble imagining using "retreat" in scripted orders often enough for this situation to be a significant problem.

[Twan]

I'd like to see retreat order as well as all irrelevant scripted spells (large AE, battlefield enchants etc...) ignored in assassinations attempts.

Actually even communion slave is cast during an assassination, where there is only one mage on the field (and as well an air mage will cast storm or arrow fend against an earth elemental if scripted to do so). It's probably the most ridiculous aspect of the game, and I see no nation relying so much on assassinations that the current system may have a balance justification.

I'm having trouble imagining using "retreat" in scripted orders often enough for this situation to be a significant problem.

I agree retreat is not the worse problem (except... when it happens). I find the lone mage casting "communion master, marble warriors, (then nothing because he is at 100+ fatigue)" far more annoying.

[Agema]

Yeah, I've found assassination problems.

In a SP game someone put up Lord of the Hunt, and he popped round killing all my Vanadrott/Vanjarls simply by routing the bodyguards. In fact quite often my mage cast thunderstrike, hit and routed his own bodyguards, then routed straight after them. The only answer I found was to kit every high level Van hero up as a thug and not use bodyguards, and that's stupidly gem-expensive and not reliable.

Casting communion master/slave in assassinations is not always fatal, but it's one wasted turn where the mage could cast a spells to defend himself or kill the assassin.

Retreating from an assassination has never happened to me yet, but I'm sure it will eventually.

* * *

I think generally assassins coming across the average mage or even some commanders are going to have a success rate under 50% even tooled up with magic equipment - but then assassins are much cheaper than mages, so that's not unreasonable.

I think the autodeath for assassination targets that rout or retreat should be turned off. Retreating to a nearby province is potentially disruptive (especially if they leave their troops behind) so the assassins would still have some effectiveness.

[Jazzepi]

capnq said:

Because the AI isn't smart enough to recognize the difference between "automatically" dying and "probably" or "possibly" dying.

I'm having trouble imagining using "retreat" in scripted orders often enough for this situation to be a significant problem.

Yes it is. It's very simple. The AI goes "Hey, this is an assassination attempt, ignore all retreat commands." If the battlefield AI can decide not to cast large AoE Spells like army of gold and fog warriors when a group of scouts attacks, then it can surely be programmed to decide not to retreat in a single situation. It's not even like there's a probability that needed to be calculated, it's just a binary decision. Either the commanders is in an assassination attempt, or they're not.

Jazzepi

[Wick]

I think the best simple solution is to allow retreats and simply disable the target's script. The assassin would still catch his victims, they wouldn't do anything spectacularly stupid, and bodyguards wouldn't be a liability.

[vfb]

That's what I was thinking, until thejeff addressed this. You may actually *want* to execute your script, because if you know an assassin is around, you can prepare something appropriate for your mages to cast. It would truly suck if you scripted Returning because a killer l33t assassin was on the loose, or you're under heavy Earth Attack/Disease Demon bombardment outside your capitol, but your mage casts Astral Shield instead.

I think Jazzepi's idea, to just ignore a scripted retreat during assassinations, is the best idea.

[hnchrist3]

"Retreat" is not the only problem. I've had mages casting useless stuff while being whailed upon by assassins.

The solution is to have a separate script of orders for assassination attempts.

[Zeldor]

Mages can do worse things that casting useless stuff. They can cast harmful stuff. For example mass protection against abysia.

[vfb]

I agree, see my 'Darkness' story at the top of this thread.

But I also agree with Jazzepi that it's a problem now, that it would be nice to have a quick fix for. Disregarding a scripted 'Retreat' command in assassination attempts is a quick fix.

Redesigning the interface, to allow scripting multiple sets of orders for different situations, does not sound like it could be done in a similar timeframe.