What could we steal from other fantasy games...

[weimaar]

Hi Johan, what is the rationale behind the not-implementing of a magic item forge?

[Kristoffer O]

There is a magic item forge. It's just that the players can't pick together anything.

Allowing forging of generic items would make them boring and less diverse in our opinion. Balancing is also difficult.

[weimaar]

Christoffer, giving people the FEELING of them being in charge is one of the most addicting and fun features one can add in a game. Being able - as a player- to tinker with magical items is a very very "empowering" thing. If you remember, half the reason one played master of orion 2 was the possibility to (even if it was completely unnecessary sometimes) design the ships. It made a unique game absolutely fantastic. Dominions 3 has the same potential.

[Twan]

I tend to agree with weimaar. I find item forging in MoM far more interesting and immersive than in dominions. Then of course there may be a lot of balance issues with this one approach.

I also think many items descriptions are strange for items you just created.

I mean, if I'm a quasi god and forge a relic I can't see why its description say its a legendary item someone else has made (what all artefacts description do). For me there is a thematic inconsistency here.

Anyway as designing items is a too big feature for dom 3, and changing all descriptions too much work for no gameplay addition... and as dom 4 isn't planned for the moment, I'm fine with items are they are.

ps : the best system for me would combine the two approachs...
- generic pre-made non unique items for low levels gear and boosters
- unique legendary items of the past not available from construction (they are already made) but from summoning schools
- designing some national non unique items (with a limited number of items models slots for each nation, and powers dependant on research in other schools) as mid-late game construction school power
- designing relics (with the pretender himself forging) as the endgame construction school power

And as soon a national item model or relic with done powers would be made, these powers would stop to be available for other nations/gods designed items, so item variety and race to endgame construction would be preserved.

[Endoperez]

Twan said:
I mean, if I'm a quasi god and forge a relic I can't see why its description say its a legendary item someone else has made (what all artefacts description do). For me there is a thematic inconsistency here.

"The Sword of Elendil was forged anew by Elvish smiths...
...Very bright was that sword when it was made whole again; the light of the sun shone redly in it, and the light of the moon shone cold, and its edge was hard and keen. And Aragorn gave it a new name and called it Andúril, Flame of the West."

"The Summit was forged anew by Master Smiths... ... Very bright was that axe when it was made whole again; the light of the sun shone redly in it, and the light of the moon shone cold, and its edge was hard and keen. And Plaguetongue gave it a new name and called it Urist, The Hungry Dwarf."

Not being able to ACTUALLY rename them is a pity, but it isn't that important either.

[sector24]

Elder Scrolls: Oblivion actually has a very good spell creation and item creation system. It allows for a huge variety of new content but hard caps the bonuses in such a way that very few items are actually overpowered. Dominions could definitely use a modified version of that.

[DaveCG]

I quite like what NT jedi said, some point points I think.

I'm quite fond of the current system myself, I love MoM and AoW don't get me wrong, but I like the item of preset items you can forge, maybe just have more of them? I don't know though, I'm still new to it all, although I must say, if there was some sort of ingame option to remove spells you don't want in you game, I'd like that, I'm more of a troop/command player, once it gets into the "MEGA DEATH RAYS OF DOOM!" stuff I sorta loss interest, mind you that could be done with a mod or two, but I'd still like the option.

Anyway more on topic I loved MoM/AoW plane shift, although it wouldn't be possible with current dom (I don't think at least, maybe I'm wrong...) I'd love to see it, I always play huge maps, and it would make them that much bigger, mind you, the bigger the map the longer it takes and likely to get abit dull after awhile, but something I thought of when I first started up the game might come in use...

Age changes, now when I played my first game I went the snow giants in EA, and I thought "Damn, I want the design points from cold scale 3, but MA snow guys like cold 2, not 3, so I'll go with 2 so that mid game I'm not freezing.."

I honestly thought that as time went on, the ages changed, I think that might be cool though, set it as a option in game creation, play say 60-odd turns as a EA nation, then it becomes it's MA one, you keep your old units, but times change and you can't make them anymore, sorta add something to it, or at least I'd think so...

[MaxWilson]

Twan said:
I tend to agree with weimaar. I find item forging in MoM far more interesting and immersive than in dominions. Then of course there may be a lot of balance issues with this one approach.

I had a lot of fun with the Master of Magic system, but I didn't actually need all the variety because I was just going to either forge 1.) a cheap item to get me through the interim, or 2.) a top-line item with +4/+4/Invisibility/Flying to put on my thugs. As far as I know this is quite possible in Dominions. Just make more higher-path items that have combinations of powers, maybe Hydra Armor + Amulet of Luck. It won't be perfect (you can't control the cost separately from paths, and it can't cost more than two gem types) but you don't need support from the software so much as you need a set of rules for forging prices, and those rules don't necessarily need to come from Illwinter.

For instance, some item costs:

Luck costs S2.
Regeneration 10% costs N3.
Quickness costs W2.
+10 to damage and +4 to attack costs F2.
AP damage on a weapon costs E1.
AN costs D2.
Misc slot items deduct 1 from total cost.

So I decide to forge a FireSword which is built on a broadsword but has att 4 and dmg 16 plus Luck. F2S2. Throw it in the mod you're using for your current game (even if you don't want any rules changes it's smart to use an empty mod, so you can edit the rules if necessary later without starting a new game, for instance to fix a bug).

-Max

[thejeff]

Boosters would be the main problem with some kind of generic in-game item design system.

Just create a 1S booster for every slot...

Even for more combat oriented items, one of the main hassles with kitting out a SC is covering all the vulnerabilities while still having enough offense. With a design system it would be worth it to cover all resistances, boost Protection & Defense, boost MR sky-high, add luck, ethereal, etc

There's a reason there are only a few ways to get many of these traits and why you have to devote a whole slot to them.

[Taqwus]

Yup.

Compare, say, the Angband games -- which have detailed inventory, but a LOT of attack forms and properties, making inventory selection an interesting problem -- w/ something like MOM (where a hero can simultaneously be immune to practically all magic, near impervious to missile fire, invisible {bugged}, flying, hasted... with a bow that fires phantasmal arrows treating enemy defense at 0.)