Mod: Conceptual Balance 1.21

[Sombre]

LA GATH

Conjuration

Summon Mazzikim - N1, RL3 - 8 / 3 Vanilla, 8 / 3 CBM. Castability: Very Easy. These are basically imps. Their high defence is a plus and they have two attacks and good att, but with low str they aren't going to do that much in combat. Their cost is already pretty much fair, which sets the tone for these summons.

Call Malakh - S2, RL4 - 1 / 9 Vanilla, 1 / 9 CBM. Castability: Easy. A Commander summon. The Malakh is potenitally thuggable, though its stats are only that of a semi-elite human warrior. It does have stealth, shock and fire res 50 and awe+3 as well as flight with mapmove 4. Having full slots it makes an ok budget raiding thug along the lines of the black servant or Bane, since it's H1 it benefits from a bless too. They have no leadership ability so that's all they're good for. I think the price is ok for that.

Summon Lilot - N4, RL5 - 1 / 25 vanilla, 1 / 25 CBM. Castability: Average. A Commander summon. You can get them by climbing nature the traditional way using an Abba as a base. These are effectively the same as Succubi - they have the same version of seduce that brings the converted commander to your home province. They have ever so slightly worse stats than the blood summon, but it's barely noticeable. I think they might be slightly overpriced and I'd be happier with them at 1 / 20 or so. They are just weaker succubi after all.

Call Hashmal - S3F1, RL6 - 1 / 21 vanilla, 1 / 21 CBM. Castability: Hard. A Commander summon. None of your recruitables have the magic to cast them and even getting S and F on one caster is quite unlikely. Still you can get to S3 with a boosted Kohen Gadol and then empower with 1 fire. These guys are clearly made for thugging. Awe+4, fireshield 8, H2, flying, ethereal, fire immune, shockres - only drawback is only 2 hand and 2 misc slots. Still I think they're well worth the cost as anti chaff thugs.

Call Arel - S4N1, RL7 - 1 / 39 vanilla, 1 / 39 CBM. Castability: Hard. A Commander summon. You're again looking at boosting S2 to S4 then empowering to cast. These aren't made to be thugs, but they could perform the role slightly better than Malakhs due to higher hp and awe+5. Their real feature is healer 50 which is pretty impressive and N3H3, which does provide Gath with a new path,.. sort of. It's not worth it to get them as thugs, not really worth it for the paths either. I think they need a cost decrease, but there seems to be some thematic pricing going on, so I don't know what to suggest, maybe 1 / 31 ?

Call Ophan - S5F2, RL8 - 1 / 49 vanilla, 1 / 49 CBM. Castability: Very Hard. Everything that is true of the Hashmal is also true of the Ophan, though the Ophan is an upgrade in almost every respect with better hp, awe, fireshield, H3 and full shock and poison immunity on top of the fire immunity. Crucially they have natural prot of 21. They are enc 1 flying tramplers and they have patrolbonus 50, not that you'd use them for patrolling. You also get mapmove 5 and they're lifeless which is a plus for avoiding certain pitfalls. They are pretty much the ultimate chaff killers. The only downside is they only have 2 misc slots. I think the price is probably fair.

Call Merkavah - S7F3, RL9 - 5 / 222 vanilla, 5 / 222 CBM. You get 1 Chayot commander and 4 Ophanim troops. Castability: Impossible. Almost certainly a pretender summon. The Chayot is a completely bat**** unit on par with the Seraph. It has 4 forms - S4, A4, F4 and E4 which it can change through at will. They are all shock, fire and poison immune, have awe+6, H4, flight with mapmove 6, fireshield 10, full slots and excellent stats. If he's in his S4 form in battle you have to kill him 4 times effectively before he dies. If he's A4 it's 3 times, F4 it's 2 and if he's in E4 by choice you can finally kill him with no second shapes. All this and he isn't even unique. The Ophanim are nearly as good as troops as they are as commanders. I don't even know where to start with a spell summoning this much muscle. I think 222 seems reasonable though. It really is that powerful.


Enchantment

Memories of Stone - D2E1, RL5 - 5+ / 10 vanilla, 5+ / 10 CBM. Castability: Easy. Fossil warriors are magic and undead which is extremely unusual. Like statue summons they have super high prot of 25, enc 0 and are actually pretty solid in combat. I think the costing here is fine. It's much like 'enliven statues' really.


Blood

Summon Se'irim - B2, RL3 - 8 / 33 vanilla, 8 / 33 CBM. Castability: Very Easy. These guys have some serious offensive power with 3 attacks at str 16 att 13 and berserk +4. They're also sacred. I'm pretty sure they're costed about right - great summon.

Summon Shedim - B3A1, RL4 - 3 / 32 vanilla, 3 / 32 CBM. Castability: Very Hard. Essentially you have to empower a boosted Kohen Gadol in air, but have no access to air gems. If you compare them with storm demons they are physically a bit more powerful and better in melee, but lack ethereality. Other than that they are very similar and should be costed similarly. Hence I suggest 3 / 20.

[Sombre]

MA ASHDOD

Conjuration

Summon Mazzikim - N1, RL3 - 8 / 3 Vanilla, 8 / 3 CBM. Castability: Average. Though Ashdod has no nature mages, getting N1 with indies isn't hard and that's all you need. Of course you'll probably be short on gems making them less attractive. These are basically imps. Their high defence is a plus and they have two attacks and good att, but with low str they aren't going to do that much in combat. Their cost is already pretty much fair.

Call Malakh - S2, RL4 - 1 / 9 Vanilla, 1 / 9 CBM. Castability: Very Easy. A Commander summon. The Malakh is potenitally thuggable, though its stats are only that of a semi-elite human warrior. It does have stealth, shock and fire res 50 and awe+3 as well as flight with mapmove 4. Having full slots it makes an ok budget raiding thug along the lines of the black servant or Bane, since it's H1 it benefits from a bless too. They have no leadership ability so that's all they're good for. I think the price is ok for that.

Summon Lilot - N4, RL5 - 1 / 25 vanilla, 1 / 25 CBM. Castability: Very Hard. A Commander summon. Ashdod has no nature mages, so getting to N4 and having the gems is unlikely outside of a pretender choice. These are effectively the same as Succubi - they have the same version of seduce that brings the converted commander to your home province. They have ever so slightly worse stats than the blood summon, but it's barely noticeable. I think they might be slightly overpriced and I'd be happier with them at 1 / 20 or so. They are just weaker succubi after all.

Call Hashmal - S3F1, RL6 - 1 / 21 vanilla, 1 / 21 CBM. Castability: Hard. A Commander summon. The Talmai has less than 1% chance of being S3F1. Hence this requires empowering a S3 Talmai in fire. These guys are clearly made for thugging. Awe+4, fireshield 8, H2, flying, ethereal, fire immune, shockres - only drawback is only 2 hand and 2 misc slots. Still I think they're well worth the cost as anti chaff thugs.

Dirge for the Dead - D3H1, RL6 - 1 / 25 vanilla, 1 / 25 CBM. Castability: Very Easy. A Commander summon, Summons up a Ditanu. These guys have only weak magic but great stats for thugging. Essentially ethereal fear+1 rephaim commanders. They come with full slots and decent equipment out of the box and are sacred. Price seems fair.

Call Arel - S4N1, RL7 - 1 / 39 vanilla, 1 / 39 CBM. Castability: Very Hard. A Commander summon. Ashdod has base S3 mages which helps, but have more trouble than Gath getting nature gems to empower. These aren't made to be thugs, but they could perform the role slightly better than Malakhs due to higher hp and awe+5. Their real feature is healer 50 which is pretty impressive and N3H3, which grants nature access to Ashdod, something they lack entirely. Possibly worth it for the path, almost certainly not worth it as a thug. I think they need a cost decrease, but there seems to be some thematic pricing going on, so I don't know what to suggest, maybe 1 / 31?

Call Ophan - S5F2, RL8 - 1 / 49 vanilla, 1 / 49 CBM. Castability: Very Hard. Everything that is true of the Hashmal is also true of the Ophan, though the Ophan is an upgrade in almost every respect with better hp, awe, fireshield, H3 and full shock and poison immunity on top of the fire immunity. Crucially they have natural prot of 21. They are enc 1 flying tramplers and they have patrolbonus 50, not that you'd use them for patrolling. You also get mapmove 5 and they're lifeless which is a plus for avoiding certain pitfalls. They are pretty much the ultimate chaff killers. The only downside is they only have 2 misc slots. I think the price is probably fair.

Banquet for the Dead - D4H1, RL8 - ? / 55 Vanilla, ? / 55 CBM. Castability: Easy. Summons 1 Malik commander and ? Ditanim troops. An additional cost is the death of the caster. I'm not sure exactly how many Ditanim troops you get, but it can't be many. The Malik is basically an undead ethereal fear+7(!!) Malqart. Where the Ditanu is a thug, this is potentially an SC. Again, full slots, sacred and good starting equipment, but here you also have useful buffing magic - D2B2H2 with 2 in a FES random as well. This does give Ashdod access to blood, but only B2 and they still don't have a blood hunter of any sort, so it isn't hugely important. It's worth noting these guys have shattered soul 15%. If there are 4 or so Ditanim (as I suspect) this is a well costed spell and needs no change.

Call Merkavah - S7F3, RL9 - 5 / 222 vanilla, 5 / 222 CBM. You get 1 Chayot commander and 4 Ophanim troops. Castability: Impossible. Almost certainly a pretender summon. The Chayot is a completely bat**** unit on par with the Seraph. It has 4 forms - S4, A4, F4 and E4 which it can change through at will. They are all shock, fire and poison immune, have awe+6, H4, flight with mapmove 6, fireshield 10, full slots and excellent stats. If he's in his S4 form in battle you have to kill him 4 times effectively before he dies. If he's A4 it's 3 times, F4 it's 2 and if he's in E4 by choice you can finally kill him with no second shapes. All this and he isn't even unique. The Ophanim are nearly as good as troops as they are as commanders. I don't even know where to start with a spell summoning this much muscle. I think 222 seems reasonable though. It really is that powerful.


Blood

Summon Se'irim - B2, RL3 - 8 / 33 vanilla, 8 / 33 CBM. Castability: Very Hard. No blood magic on recruitables, no blood hunter. Ashdod can get to blood via summoning of Maliks, but essentially they aren't going to be using this spell. These guys have some serious offensive power with 3 attacks at str 16 att 13 and berserk +4. They're also sacred. I'm pretty sure they're costed about right - great summon, just not for Ashdod.

Summon Shedim - B3A1, RL4 - 3 / 32 vanilla, 3 / 32 CBM. Castability: Impossible. You'll basically need a pretender for these and even then you haven't got a blood hunter. If you compare them with storm demons they are physically a bit more powerful and better in melee, but lack ethereality. Other than that they are very similar and should be costed similarly. Hence I suggest 3 / 20.

[Zeldor]

Sombre:

Don't forget that Chayot needs some troops around if he has to get into second shape after death. If he is alone he starts to flee if he loses 75% HP of hist first shape.

But yeah, great guy

[Sombre]

EA HINNOM

Conjuration

Summon Mazzikim - N1, RL3 - 8 / 3 Vanilla, 8 / 3 CBM. Castability: Very Easy. These are basically imps. Their high defence is a plus and they have two attacks and good att, but with low str they aren't going to do that much in combat. Their cost is already pretty much fair.

Summon Lilot - N4, RL5 - 1 / 25 vanilla, 1 / 25 CBM. Castability: Average. A Commander summon. Hinnom can use the Acha and bootstrap up in the normal way, so casting this isn't too tough. These are effectively the same as Succubi - they have the same version of seduce that brings the converted commander to your home province. They have ever so slightly worse stats than the blood summon, but it's barely noticeable. I think they might be slightly overpriced and I'd be happier with them at 1 / 20 or so. They are just weaker succubi after all.


Blood

Summon Se'irim - B2, RL3 - 8 / 33 vanilla, 8 / 33 CBM. Castability: Very Easy. These guys have some serious offensive power with 3 attacks at str 16 att 13 and berserk +4. They're also sacred. I'm pretty sure they're costed about right - great summon.

Summon Shedim - B3A1, RL4 - 3 / 32 vanilla, 3 / 32 CBM. Castability: Hard. Getting the blood is even less of a problem than it is for Gath, but blood and air combined is still a bit tricky. Unlike Gath Hinnom does have an air mage in the Ammi and will have air gems, so empowering the blood mage to A1 is much easier. If you compare them with storm demons they are physically a bit more powerful and better in melee, but lack ethereality. Other than that they are very similar and should be costed similarly. Hence I suggest 3 / 20.

Release Lord of Civilization - B8, RL9 - 1 / 177 vanilla, 1 / 177 CBM. Castability: Hard. A Unique Commander summon. You get one of the 6 corrupted grigori. Though you have easy access to B3 via the Baal, getting to B8 is far from trivial. That said, it is doable and indeed desirable. My feeling is all of these are well worth the cost - they are all powerful and diverse casters and sacred SCs with flight, mapmove 5, full slots, blood vengeance, shock/fire/poison immunity, varying strengths of fear and stealth. They are also all demons AND magic beings which is worth bearing in mind. Four of them are mage/fortune tellers, the second in command Semyaza is a mage/healer (100!) and Azazel is more of a devoted SC (with an amazing default sword). Again though, any one of them makes an excellent mage or SC and through them you can gain access to unboosted S5, F4, N4, B5, A4 and E4 depending on which you get. Though they are described as seducers, they actually have a totally unique command: "Corrupt Enemy Commander" which works like a Succubus attempt. Semyaza and Azazel are the best at this, but it does mean they are all assassins effectively. I wouldn't suggest reducing the cost at all.

[quantum_mechani]

Sombre said:
they actually have a totally unique command: "Corrupt Enemy Commander" which works like a Succubus attempt.

Actually it's not unique, one of the demon lords has had that since dom2.

Anyway, thanks for the write ups on the new nation summons, my gut feeling on most of them is similar to yours, most look fairly decent already. Though I do think you overrate those nature gem costing imps a bit.

[MaxWilson]

I don't know that I agree about the impossibility of casting Call Merkavah with national troops. At least with Hinnom, you have S3 casters and can forge Starshine Skullcap, Crystal Coin, Ring of Sorcery, Ring of Wizardry, Skull of Fire. Getting to S7F3 then takes either 80 Fire gems of empowerment (S3F2 + Starshine Skullcap/Crystal Coin/Ring of Wizardry/Skull of Fire) or 50 Fire gems + 60(?) Pearls (S4F1 + Starshine Skullcap/Crystal Coin/Ring of Sorcery/Ring of Wizardry). Normally that would sound like a lot, but when you're already talking about blowing 220 pearls on the spell it sounds more like sales tax. Or in other words, even if you use a pretender it's not going to be a whole lot cheaper than that.

You can save more if you happen to have access to Dimensional Rod or Staff of Elemental Mastery. S3F1 + Starshine Skullcap/Crystal Coin/Ring of Sorcery/Ring of Wizardry/Staff of Elemental Mastery = S7F3.

-Max

[Sombre]

Well you're right it isn't really impossible max, it's just harder than 'very hard'. At least it is for Gath (s3) and Ashdod (s2). For Hinnom it really is impossible because they don't get the spell.

[MaxWilson]

Zeldor said:
Sombre:

Don't forget that Chayot needs some troops around if he has to get into second shape after death. If he is alone he starts to flee if he loses 75% HP of hist first shape.

Is this necessarily true? I don't think SCs with Phoenix Pyre always flee when they're low on HP. Does Phoenix Pyre do funny things to morale?

Note that F4 Chayot can cast Phoenix Pyre and then shapeshift back to S4 form. (Yes, they can cycle through all 4 forms in combat. If I can trust my memory.) Then you have to kill him... lots of times.

-Max