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Old September 23rd, 2008, 11:53 PM

Trumanator Trumanator is offline
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Default Re: OT: US Pres election

considering that the arctic ice cap GAINED mass over the last year I think that the US position on GW might end up the most prudent.
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Old September 24th, 2008, 12:15 AM

Omnirizon Omnirizon is offline
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Default Re: OT: US Pres election

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Originally Posted by Trumanator View Post
considering that the arctic ice cap GAINED mass over the last year I think that the US position on GW might end up the most prudent.
what? we don't really know what's going on? so let's just keep plugging away? maybe we can think of some sham stuff to keep people distracted long enough for us to rape the earth a little more? who cares about the future, we're rich and getting richer, so our grandkids don't have to worry about the place getting trashed. family values... for our family, not yours.

I think even those who held out the 'ice caps' growing stuff realized it was a complete fallacy to the actual situation; a simple distraction. ice caps growing because the warmer seas create increased moisture and increased snowfall on the icecaps.
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Old September 24th, 2008, 12:36 AM

Trumanator Trumanator is offline
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Default Re: OT: US Pres election

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Originally Posted by Omnirizon View Post
what? we don't really know what's going on? so let's just keep plugging away? maybe we can think of some sham stuff to keep people distracted long enough for us to rape the earth a little more? who cares about the future, we're rich and getting richer, so our grandkids don't have to worry about the place getting trashed. family values... for our family, not yours.

I think even those who held out the 'ice caps' growing stuff realized it was a complete fallacy to the actual situation; a simple distraction. ice caps growing because the warmer seas create increased moisture and increased snowfall on the icecaps.
We can't predict the weather a week in advance accurately. Yet we're expected to believe the "projections" that are months or years in the future. I'm all for alternative energy and such, but more because of foreign oil dependence than the global warming hysteria. Besides, if you look at history, warming trends show up all the time, and have often lead to great prosperity. It really doesn't help that those who are always telling people how to treat their land DON'T ACTUALLY LIVE ON IT!! Some Berkely professor (no offense intended) thinks he's a better steward of the land than the farmer who actually lives on it.

Aside: Sorry Pasha for making assumptions about you.

Last edited by Trumanator; September 24th, 2008 at 12:38 AM..
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Old September 24th, 2008, 06:12 AM
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Default Re: OT: US Pres election

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We can't predict the weather a week in advance accurately. Yet we're expected to believe the "projections" that are months or years in the future.
Actually we're a lot better about predicting the weather than we were 20 years ago. Back then, whatever they told you in the news about tomorrow's weather, in 70% of cases they were wrong. Now the forecast for tomorrow usually is true, and the three-day forecast is going to be true most of the time, too. I expect that this is because of the increased computing power over the years, and because more measurements have been done to better predict what might or might not happen next. Weather is a chaotic process, you can't just calculate the outcome with all the imperfect inputs from measures. Still, you can make predictions based on what you have seen before.

Your statement that nothing can be forseen without failure, therefore no predictions about the future hold any meaning are too religious that I'm going to argue much more about it. Seems like you really are more interested in keeping the status quo and getting distracted while waiting for Godot.
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Old September 24th, 2008, 12:18 AM
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Default Re: OT: US Pres election

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Originally Posted by Trumanator View Post
considering that the arctic ice cap GAINED mass over the last year I think that the US position on GW might end up the most prudent.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Northwest Passage open up this year? Like, the Northwest Passage through the arctic that we've never been able to pass before without using giant ice breakers?

Ah, here we go. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...aarctic131.xml

Again, please do correct me if I'm wrong about this, I've only spent a couple of minutes looking at this particular issue.
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Old September 24th, 2008, 01:47 AM
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Default Re: OT: US Pres election

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Originally Posted by Trumanator View Post
considering that the arctic ice cap GAINED mass over the last year I think that the US position on GW might end up the most prudent.
I don't know where you got this from, but it's outright false. The Arctic sea ice has been consistently losing overall mass, even if there has been some localized increase in isolated places. The Greenland glaciers are receding at an alarming pace.


As far as the US elections go, a vote for McCain can most charitably be characterized as utter irresponsibility. His campaign promises aside, a closer look at his actual platform has made it clear that he intends to continue the same policies Bush and Cheney used for the past 8 years to drive the US to the ground. He has run a campaign of outright lies and character assassination while avoiding giving any kind of factual positions on issues. He is old and in poor health and stands to leave Palin as president if he croaks. Palin's record as the mayor of Wasilla and later as governor of Alaska is a record of division, mismanagement and cronyism cast from exactly the same mold as the Bush administration. She just happens to be a hockey-mom and to possess the "just like us" factor, which is going to sway more gullible voters.

The problem with the "just like us" factor is that ideally the leaders of a country shouldn't be like Joe/Jane Sixpack, but more intelligent, more educated and more aware of the world around them.

The recent financial crisis is just one more mark against the neocon and Invisible Hand of the Free Market risk socialists who have been at the helm for the last 8 years. The Republicans pushed complete deregulation of the financial industry through in 1999 and now that all of the profits of the last few years have been privatized while they built up the current mess, they seek to socialize all of the losses on the taxpayers. They even had the audacity to put it in the draft that the Treasury Secretary (aka Paulson, a former investment banker) would have sole authoirty to act as he saw fit (mostly in the interests of his Wall Street buddies) and that anything he did would not be subject to ANY judicial review.

There is also one factor to the "world leader" and international relations aspect of this election: The US touts itself as the leader of the free world and assumes that it is regarded as such. The current administration's idea of international relations has been "We expect unquestioning obedience and you will do as we say or else!", which has not gone over very well with the rest of the world. Electing McCain would be seen as a deliberate decision to continue Bush policies.

Up until now the rest of the world has made a pretty marked distinction between regarding the current US administration as a bunch of corrupt, venal screwups but not extending that same assessment to the American people. Americans are considered good guys oerall, but with a bad government. Elect McCain and the international opinion will start shifting in the direction that all of the negative perceptions of the current American government will be largely transferred on the American people as a whole. That would mean that Americans would be assumed to be navel-gazing, warmongering, belligerent morons by default and only once an individual American had proved himself to be otherwise would they be extended the benefit of the doubt. That's how bad perception of the US currently is, even among the populations of many allied nations. The governments of those allied nations will never say this out loud, of course, but private citizens do not need to hold their tongues the same way.

These are just some of the reasons I would like to see Obama win the elections. He has shown competence and he would go a long way toward mending the strained and torn relations between the US and the rest of the world. He also has a substantive platform on the issues that is not geared toward benefiting the rich at the expense of the poor and the middle class (which is pretty much an endangered subspecies of the population due to Bush's policies).

This is one view from abroad, though I daresay that I am fairly well informed on what goes on in American politics.
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