Ooh, ooh, new info on patch page!

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Omnirizon

does this common wisdom hold for Oracles too?

against all common sense, I found a nation build that I really like with an awake oracle (NOT PROVIDING A BLESS!) The nation doesn't need an SC pretender, loves good scales, needs no bless, but likes a high dom to spread scales, and the added pearl income and astral magic just tops off their magic diversity. Additionally, the nation has magic paths with no natural income, and the pearls allow them to bootstrap this income MUCH easier.

amicrazy?

I use oracles or blood fountains on roughtly half my builds.

[Gandalf Parker]

Sorry if that was unclear. That was in reference to Epaminondas.

I don't play MPs, but WHY IN THE WORLD DO PEOPLE USE THE FACT THAT CERTAIN NATION HAS DONE BADLY OR WELL IN A SINGLE MP GAME AS PROOF THAT THEY EITHER SUCK OR ARE OVER-POWERED?

It does tend to be hard for solo players to see the reasons behind such strong opinions based on how a nation does in a few mp games.

[Gandalf Parker]

I think the event on the Blood Fountain was just that it was already in the game, but was not working correctly. So it was fixed.

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

By the way - I am not a competent player with ulm - but I'd be interested in seeing how the the ulm new stop sacred would work again hinnom / Niefle.

Probably not too well, since EA Ulm doesn't have any units with that ability.

And the Size difference makes a *huge* difference. It stops the chariots from trampling some of Fomorias units, some of Niefles, and elephants - which includes the arcosephale nations, the bandar log nations, and independent elephants - not to mention Caelum's mammoths.

Elephants and mammoths are size 6, so hinnom chariots could never trample them. Niefel giants are size 5 and I don't believe size 6 hinnom chariots could beat them via trampling - size 6 vs size 5 and they're quite a lot worse, particularly against cold aura blessed units that are 1 to a square.

Change the precision of those yomi flame throwing units from 8 to 11, and increase the prcision of the throw flames to +4 and you'd see Niefle.. go down in flames.. literally.

That would be a pretty major boost, changing flames from inaccurate spray to laser precise magic missiles.

[Tifone]

I agree with Sombre on that. Possibly I fail to see the thematicness of Onis shooting so precise fires.

Originally Posted by ano

No, France was not overpowered, it was Napoleon who was[...]

Was he an SC? Maybe a Seraph?

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Sombre

Probably not too well, since EA Ulm doesn't have any units with that ability.

Some people play multi-age.

FWIW, in test games I found that the MA Ulm "sacred" troop (well, their weapons are sacred, sort of), in moderate numbers, is quite capable of killing off a fully decked-out Malik SC from Ashdod. Fatigue kills SCs.

-Max

[MaxWilson]

I would keep the imprecision of Throw Flames but boost the base precision of the Oni troops somewhat, on the theory that they're immortal and have had ages to practice throwing flames at peasants.

-Max

[konming]

And give them AOE 1 or 3. It is flame thrower after all.

[Tifone]

I think it's a more like a fire dart actually (not that I say that Yomi shouldn't deserve some boost at some point )

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by thejeff

But does it actually have any relevance to Hinnom's power? I do play mostly SP. Hinnom is unbalanced. I'm not that good a player, but it's not even fun using it against the AI. You can just roll over them.

And it's not even that useful as an uber AI opponent, since the AI doesn't do well with it's strengths. Hinnom is all about SCs and small groups of tough troops.

*cough* Ashdod is "unbalanced" too. Admittedly, any nation which can produce thugs and SCs is "unbalanced" against the AI once you get to that stage, but Ashdod with an E10N6 bless is pretty ridiculous too. A single E10N6 Adon can take pretty much any indy province except knights, elephants, or barbarians all on his own even before you research Body Ethereal. He's almost impossible for indies to damage, regenerates, and has 0 enc. (Add in some Ahimans to take down elephants and knights.) You can be taking 4 provinces/turn around later winter of the first year, constrained mostly by geography. Ashdods best researchers aren't quite as good as LA Agartha, even post-Agarthan nerf, but they're sacred (and high-research if you feel like saving points w/ Drain). Ashdod has a forge bonus for equipping SCs and native earth/death/fire income, so making a Shadow Brand + Shield of Gleaming Gold for every Adon is eminently possible once you hit Const-6. The AI has no way to stop SCs, and it's impossible to lose quickly enough to not get SCs... I think Ashdod is the first nation I've tried where I have never lost a game to the AI even in the learning phase. (Ashdod's national summons aren't even really an issue here because the game is over before you get them--but E10N6 Dirge For The Dead is amazing for the price.)

I don't think this says anything per se about whether Ashdod is overpowered in general (SCs are a known problem for the AI) but in SP it's kind of sick.

-Max