Does Umor Make Victims Suicidal?

[Foodstamp]

Hmm interesting. I distinctly remember losing pretenders to this, most recently losing a Risen Oracle to Vengeance of the Dead.

[Calahan]

Did the Risen Oracle actually get killed during the combat, or did VotD make him auto-route at turn 50? Since if the latter then he would actually 'die'.

If you run my test game and place the TC Pretender far back and set him to retreat, you will see that he won't be back in the capital next turn.

[Foodstamp]

I am pretty sure it was auto route which I figured would be treated like death, but from your saved game that doesn't seem to be the case.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Sombre

I don't think this is true. I've never seen anything other than mindless or berserk units stick around after the siderout. I see no evidence of morale checks.

I have seen it frequently, or else my memory is lying to me. I guess I'll have to check when I get home. Usually it's elite sacreds or commanders.

-Max

[AreaOfEffect]

There are three auto-route conditions:
1.Reaching turn 50
2.Less then 25% total army health
3.Less then 25% squad health (Each commander is it's own squad)

-The first 2 are army-wide auto-routes.
-All three are ignored by mindless (moral 50) and berserked (moral 99) units.
-Having a moral of 30 does not allow you to ignore any of these conditions, it only lets you ignore moral damage and normal moral checks.
-I think being immortal only lets you ignore the 2nd condition. Possibly the 3rd. (Only in positive dominion.)

In regards to assassination:
-A successful route by your commander will cause it to be dead, even if it is immortal and surrounded by positive dominion.
-Actually dying during an assassination will allow immortal units to be revived if in positive dominion.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

I have seen it frequently, or else my memory is lying to me. I guess I'll have to check when I get home. Usually it's elite sacreds or commanders.

-Max

Okay, I checked this when I got home and I'm kind of puzzled. I went to a recent battle replay and killed off bunches of my units with Shift + 'K'. It consistently didn't happen that 50% death generated the rout notice, and I kept having to kill off somewhat more than 75% for the notice to happen. Each time I did it, the commander routed, but the one surviving unit did not--he did not get the Routing -4 penalty to defense, and he advanced toward the enemy and attacked. Note that both commander and unit had Morale 30. Perhaps it's just some kind of bug instead of by-design.

-Max

[Agema]

After the notice flashes up that an army has routed, everything that isn't Morale 50 or 99 runs off the battlefield as far as I recall. However, I've noticed that when the notice first appears, the army seems to do one last attack before they run.

[MaxWilson]

That's just because they act before making their final morale check (which they will fail because autoroute is in effect). This is different. The unit made multiple attacks and never got the -4 Def penalty for routing. I didn't play it all the way to the end of the battle so I don't know if he would eventually have routed (he probably would once the commander left the screen but even in that case sometimes a unit doesn't, even if it's not berserk/mindless).

-Max

[AreaOfEffect]

There are some cases where normal moral units will continue to attack if the enemy routs first.

A good example I've used before is with Caelum. In order to get my units to fire for more rounds and then flee, I've simply set the archers to fire and have my commander retreat after holding for several rounds. If the archery happens to be enough to cause the enemy to rout, then my units continue to attack, even though there is no commander on the field. In these cases I'll often sneak a Seraphine into the province so that it can pick up the commander-less army.

[chrispedersen]

What you seem to be saying is that if your enemy routes first it prevents yours from executing.

I have seen several battles where I have received 3-4 routing messages - and yet normal troops stay on the battlefield.

I have always presumed that Max was correct - that it was a unit route message.

Alternately, I wonder if the computer is checking the various route conditions, and the units in question fail to route due to berserk, entangled or what have you.

For example, you can route from morale loss, hp loss, so perhaps the first route condition is failed - the route message flashes but because there are still units on the field - when the second condition occurs - the msg flashes again...