Fire vs. Death heavy bless

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by K

Yeh, I totally want to trust you based on "that one game where I schooled everyone...."

I play Bless nations all the time. My experience is that on a normal-sized map the other players see your quick expansion and dogpile you before you can get any meaningful lead in provinces. My last three games as Lanka ended for me when 3-4 players attacked me at the same time. Sure, I averaged destroying one and crippling two others, but I did not reach the endgame.

And that's why it is not a game-winning tactic unless you play on a large map. Its a fine tactic for winning fights, but winning a game requires so much more and I'll put my eggs in some other basket.

It seems like you've been getting a free pass from the Dominions community if they are letting you expand on those maps, and I can't take account of "and maybe I get lucky and my opponents are chumps or buds of mine" in any tactical or strategic decisions I make.

On the bright side I now know why you think the way you do, so I don't have to keep arguing with you on the chance you have valuable insights. It's been fun.

Sure, attack the player, instead of the points.

*IF* you play bless nations all the time, you would know that it does not take until turn 7 for a bless nation to conquer 2 territories per turn.

You say its not a game winning strategy except on a large map.
Fine.

How about we settle this on a small map. Say.. Albatha. I'll take EA mictlan. You take any EA nation you want (except grossly unbalanced hinnom). Of course to make your point you'd logically not have to choose a bless nation.

Plain vanilla game.
Standard settings.

You say large benefits bless- I'm giving you small.
You'll know I'm starting with an f9w9 bless at the minimum - you can keep yours secret.
You're even a better player than I. Still won't matter.

[K]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Sure, attack the player, instead of the points.

*IF* you play bless nations all the time, you would know that it does not take until turn 7 for a bless nation to conquer 2 territories per turn.

You say its not a game winning strategy except on a large map.
Fine.

How about we settle this on a small map. Say.. Albatha. I'll take EA mictlan. You take any EA nation you want (except grossly unbalanced hinnom). Of course to make your point you'd logically not have to choose a bless nation.

Plain vanilla game.
Standard settings.

You say large benefits bless- I'm giving you small.
You'll know I'm starting with an f9w9 bless at the minimum - you can keep yours secret.
You're even a better player than I. Still won't matter.

Hilarious. Reread the thread, especially the part where I note where Blesses are game-winning strats on very big maps AND small maps with a single opponent.

So if you win, you prove me right. If I win, I am right again by proving that Bless rushes that lose their first battle tend to lose the war.

How about we just skip the middle part and just recognize I'm right?

Or even better, how about we just back away from any trials by combat and agree that our results have varied. I truly believe that you truly believe you are right and the only way you will change your mind is to have a run of multiplay games like I have had.

In all seriousness and semi-friendly jabbing aside, the last time I proved someone wrong about a strategy game by playing a public game with them he ended up in a hospital because he had a nervous breakdown the same day he received the turn where I did the killing stroke to his empire. I'm not going to claim credit for his personal problems, but from then on I decided that being proven right in public is not worth it, especially for a game that is supposed to be about fun.

Peace.

[LDiCesare]

Even on small maps with 4 players, a strong bless can help a lot. With a good bless you can take out one opponent first and then turn on those two other players who are busy fighting each other.
Also, a bless strategy can go well into mid-game (EA T'ien Ch'i is a nice bless nation for that reason: demons of heavenly water nicely complement the warrior of the 5 elements by being tougher and summonable anywhere).

Also, a strong Fire bless doesn't preclude a late game strategy. I like F9S9 with Mictlan for instance. Since I pick S9 you guess that end-game strategies revolve around that rather than Death and I think S9F9 > S9D9 without compromising late game.

[chrispedersen]

[quote=K;706473]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

I truly believe that you truly believe you are right and the only way you will change your mind is to have a run of multiplay games like I have had.

I've played way north of 300 games of dominions.. more than 50 mp games... although only maybe a dozen here. Losing 3-4 games because you're gang banged can happen to any nation and doesn't prove the lack of validity of a bless strategy.

If you say the game averages 10 opponents - heck you rate to lose 9... losing three just proves bless is giving you an advantage =P

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by K

In all seriousness and semi-friendly jabbing aside, the last time I proved someone wrong about a strategy game by playing a public game with them he ended up in a hospital because he had a nervous breakdown the same day he received the turn where I did the killing stroke to his empire. I'm not going to claim credit for his personal problems, but from then on I decided that being proven right in public is not worth it, especially for a game that is supposed to be about fun.

Yeah don't argue with K, he's so right you might actually GO MAD from, you know, how right he is. OR DIE.