Excellent article on Afghanistan

[Snipey]

The quote was from more of a documentary, than an actual movie type thing, I should have clarified that earlier. From what I gathered, the people were conscripted, and out of those conscripted some volunteered to go to Afghanistan. Also there were Spetznatz volunteers.

There are whole articles and multiple viewpoints as to what the Soviets accomplished/didn't accomplish in Afghanistan. I will say that under Soviet rule Afghan women's lives improved. However, this is bordering on politics, so I won't go any further in that direction.

I was talking about Gorbachev's mishandling the army, and the domestic front. I don't buy the argument that one has to sacrifice the army in order to achieve political goals. I do know that the army was going to coup Gorbachev eventually, because of the War in Afghanistan. Gorbachev either had to pull out the troops, or supply the troops. Instead he did nothing. The army isn't a pushover in Russia, they have power. The could've prevented Yeltsin from couping Gorbachev. But he lost their trust. If you choose to, pardon my French, **** your fellow countrymen for your political ambitions, then you aren't a great leader, and quite frankly, you are a poor exuse for a human being. Gorbachev truly screwed the Red Army, almost as bad as Stalin.

The USSR was already overtaken by the West. US had FDR, while USSR had Stalin. US had no war fought on its soil, except Pearl Harbor, Alaska and minor incidents. USSR took the brunt of the war. Being overtaken by the West was nothing new to the USSR. It wasn't like there was a point in time where the Soviets were winning the Cold War, with the exception of America's disastrous War in Vietnam, but that mistake was American, not Soviet.

However USSR could never have been isolated as North Korea is today? Having lived in Yeltsin's Russia, I can say that it wasn't worth it. Nothing was worth going through that. As for changes, I believe they would've happened, through this cool thing called a "series of tubes" aka The Internet. There was a war between the Russian Hackers and the Russian Government. The hackers won. With the exception of articles aiding Nazism, those aiding Al Qaeda, and those publishing explicit materials of child pornography, the Internet, in Russia, is uncensored. And quite frankly, I doubt that the Soviet Government could have defeated the Russian Hackers, because the Soviet Government failed to stop the importation of Rock and Roll, which I personally believe was a wonderful import. After the Internet was made available to the masses, the USSR Government would have to adopt, and free speech, would be allowed, except without the mass panic that was produced and that has killed, according to estimates, at least 3,000,000 to 5,000,000 Russians. To call it a disaster is a huge understatement.

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by Snipey

Gorbachev either had to pull out the troops, or supply the troops.

I don't understand what you mean by "supply" here. Trasportation was a bottleneck, with a poor road network used by harrassed convoys where one truck every 3-4 had to carry a Zu-23 instead of cargo for self defense. It is questionable they could have shipped there much more stuff than they actually did. I suppose they could have brought more high quality stuff, say more SU-25s instead of older planes, more PGMs etc but that was 1)expensive and they were already overspending in the military 2) the more modern stuff was badly needed by the GSFG in case the balloon went up, which around 1983 or so was not an extremely remote possibility.

Or do you have something else in mind?

Being overtaken by the West was nothing new to the USSR. It wasn't like there was a point in time where the Soviets were winning the Cold War, with the exception of America's disastrous War in Vietnam, but that mistake was American, not Soviet.

Perhaps being overtaken was the wrong choice of word. I will explain with an example: insofar such things can be gauged the soviet economy was still growing at competitive world rates in the 60's. It was believable back then that catching up with the developed world could have been possible at some point in the future.
By the 80's this was definitively not the case anymore.
Do you get what I am trying to say?

[Marcello]

On the above, I am not so sure on the escort/transport ratio.
I remembered it was written somewhere in this website
http://www.ruswar.com/army.htm
But it might be just my memory playing tricks. Still it did not look like a walk in the park:

[Snipey]

Then you improve to road network. If the Red Army could deliver supplies to Leningrad, you can be damn sure they can deliver supplies to Kabul. You also coordinate with allies, improve overall strategy, use bombs and air force in intense battles, take the casualties, but gain the ground. You don't just sit there and do nothing, like Gorbachev did!

I do, but I think you're wrong. Keep in mind that in the USSR there was no unemployment, everyone had jobs, and most people had a roof over their head and food to eat, as well as quality healthcare. There was also no massive depression during the Cold War in the West. I think that if the USSR lasted to this day, it would have been interesting, to say the least, and I know that scenario would be better for Russians, than the one that took place. It's about surviving, not about winning the Cold War. USSR couldn't have won the Cold War, but it could have given its citizens quality lives, which is much better than what Gorbachev's and Yeltsin's Russia did. The main reason that Putin is popular in Russia, is because under Putin the living standards of the average Russian, either doubled or tripled, depending on whose analysis you look at.