PaK 97/38

[redcoat2]

Hi cbo, Patronenmeister,

it also struck me as very odd that the AP round is listed as a ‘PzGr 40’ APCR. I suppose it could be an inaccurate designation for an AP round (such as the 7.5 cm K.Gr. Pz. (p)) produced using a Polish design and/or components. On the other hand, maybe no AP rounds were produced at all. It is interesting that the table provides figures regarding HEAT round production which match those you found elsewhere. Perhaps all the figures are questionable. Or maybe the Polish authors of the recently published book came across some info we haven't seen elsewhere.

The technical sheets are interesting historical documents. One of my books seems to have been largely based upon them. The Pak 97/38 sheet has some useful information. The penetration stats, for example, are the same as you have quoted elsewhere. It’s a shame that the sheet for the Pak 97/38 isn’t as complete as many of the others.

redcoat2

[cbo]

Originally Posted by redcoat2

Hi cbo, Patronenmeister,

it also struck me as very odd that the AP round is listed as a ‘PzGr 40’ APCR. I suppose it could be an inaccurate designation for an AP round (such as the 7.5 cm K.Gr. Pz. (p)) produced using a Polish design and/or components. On the other hand, maybe no AP rounds were produced at all. It is interesting that the table provides figures regarding HEAT round production which match those you found elsewhere. Perhaps all the figures are questionable. Or maybe the Polish authors of the recently published book came across some info we haven't seen elsewhere.

It turns out that it is likely that the author of the Polish book used exactly the same source as I did - Hahns "Waffen und Geheimwaffen....". He just read the table on page 115 wrong

As he read the ammunition production figures, he went from the 7,5cm PaK 97/38 for which only HL rounds are listed and down to the next line which lists SpGr (HE) and the next line which lists PzGr. (AP), missing the fact that the two last figures are not for the PaK 97/38 but for a 7,62cm gun - probably the PaK 36(r).
Why he added the "40" is anybodys guess....

Hahn does not list his sources precisely, but others have had fingers on the same tables in the German Archives and Hahns numbers appear to add up compared with the original paperwork.

The technical sheets are interesting historical documents. One of my books seems to have been largely based upon them. The Pak 97/38 sheet has some useful information. The penetration stats, for example, are the same as you have quoted elsewhere. It’s a shame that the sheet for the Pak 97/38 isn’t as complete as many of the others.

They are interesting, and contains some information that is not easy to come by in other sources (prices on equipment, barrel wear, consumption of rawmaterials etc.). But they should not be mistaken for technical documents as manuals, design drawings or Waffenamt correspondance regarding the technical properties of various weapons.
Their purpose was not as technical documentation, but rather as a catalogue of weapons that the bureaucrats working for RfRuK could use in their work.
As you point out, many of the entries are incomplete, just as there are plain errors and data that does not quite line up with other sources.

When they were published back in 1976 by Waffen-Revue in Germany, they probably were an important new addition to the publicly available sources on German weapons and were used as a reference by various authors, including Walther Speilberger, renowned for his volumes on German armour from the same period.

Today, much of the data can be aquired from sources based on archival research in papers with more reliable information, but it is still a nice compilation of data, with some unusual snippets of information.

cbo

[redcoat2]

cbo,

thanks for looking into the mystery of the AP production figures in the table I posted. I’ve read in a couple of places that the Germans produced AP rounds for the Pak 97/38 – or its predecessors the 7,5 cm FK 231(f) and FK 97(p) - but I don’t know of any hard evidence.

I guess there are two possible reasons why the 7.5 cm K.Gr. Pz. (p) appears on the technical sheet in 1944: (1) it was still in stock because it was not the gunners’ first choice or (2) it was a clerical error. The sheet may be accurate because the person that filled it in did not include the early HEAT rounds issued when the gun was first introduced. They may have been used up by 1944 whereas the AP round may still have been hanging around.

Cheers,

redcoat2

[cbo]

Originally Posted by redcoat2

cbo,
I guess there are two possible reasons why the 7.5 cm K.Gr. Pz. (p) appears on the technical sheet in 1944: (1) it was still in stock because it was not the gunners’ first choice or (2) it was a clerical error. The sheet may be accurate because the person that filled it in did not include the early HEAT rounds issued when the gun was first introduced. They may have been used up by 1944 whereas the AP round may still have been hanging around.

If the gun was issued in spring/early summer 1942, the early HEAT round - the one without a prefix - was probably no longer in production. IIRC this was the round introduced in the summer of 1940 and withdrawn again early in 1941 after combat testing in Africa. The Hl/A arrived in the summer of 1941, apparently.
Curiously, the Hl/A, B and C are all mentioned for the PaK 97/38 and the PaK 40, while only the Hl/C for the 7,5cm KwK 37 L/24 is mentioned.

It would appear to be an inconsistency..?

As for the Polish AP round - it is anybodys guess. Could be that the people compiling the sheets just copied the ammo data off the available manuals, som being old and others more recent. Who knows

cbo