Counter-Battery Process?

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by EOT

The Allies were afraid of the Iraqi arty because they had base bleed ammunition and smooth bore arty with longer range capability. One of the reason's Gerald Bull was assassinated in 1990 for his work on an Iraqi Supergun.

Actually those guns were not smoothbores,a dicey proposition for long range artillery, they engage the rifling via small finns in a fashion reminiscent of some mid 19th century rifled guns designs. This made possible to design much more aerodynamic shells.Also "brute force" measures such as more powerful charge and longer barrel were employed.
I am not sure but I suspect that all the talks about coalitions fearing iraqi guns was more some analyst second guessing the matter rather reality. Absent good supporting C&C and reconnaissance they would be unable to exploit the extra range in any seriously effective fashion.

In any case it shoud be noted that US artillery being outranged in terms of pure gun performance is not exactly a novelty.Even the new M777 is still outranged by even such a common and antique weapon as the 130mm M46.

[EOT]

Originally Posted by Marcello;790207[QUOTE

In any case it shoud be noted that US artillery being outranged in terms of pure gun performance is not exactly a novelty.Even the new M777 is still outranged by even such a common and antique weapon as the 130mm M46.

I didn't realize they had that kind of range! What kind of CEP do they have at those ranges?

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by EOT

I didn't realize they had that kind of range! What kind of CEP do they have at those ranges?

Supposedly it had good accuracy (though it should be noted that with artillery one should think both in terms accuracy and dispersion), it was expected to perform CB missions after all, but I cannot find any source expressing it in terms of probable error.

Are some getting out of touch with reality and forgetting this a game here after all?

Mine was an observation on a couple of issues, not on the game mechanics.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I might be missing something here but if range was a factor in off map CB fire missions then how could the examples in Post #14 Item #1 have occurred? They represent only a fraction of such occurrences that have happened since I started playing the game through all the patches over the years. And CB is a part of my tactics as I go deeper into my generated campaigns typically consisting of 21 to 23 battles. As noted I have been CB fired on by 105mm off map against my 155mm off may units and have taken hits and returned the favor against larger caliber tubes the AI had. So by logical deduction one of two things is happening
1. Range doesn't matter for CB fire missions or 2. Something isn't working right on my game in the software program.
I know there have to be software parameters set up to "lock in" the off map area and it might be closer then we think because I thought there was a bug fix about 2 to 4 years ago that fixed something affecting the AI off map reinforcements getting destroyed by random planned or arty directed against on map AI units that were close to the edge of the map causing inadvertent damage or destruction to reinforcement units off map in the adjacent hexes at the point of entry, which I've done a handful of times myself by pure dumb luck.

Suhiir-You might be right about the Marine thing, but have you ever had Don raise the surrender flag to you!?! But I really think the last thing Don wants us to do is make it a race to find out which branch is worse!?! We both might want to consider the following then!! Don and us !! Seems when the flag was raised I did the same thing must of been that NH-90 helo I put in last years or previous years list for
NEW ZEALAND!?!

To everyone have a good night!

Regards,
Pat

[Wdll]

I have a feeling we will see first the inclusion of alien races than counter battery performing airplanes.
Actually, I would prefer aliens to that.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Air strike capability simply won't work because I maintain a constant CAP over my off map Arty (At least a squadron of fast movers for every two platoons of Arty.), plus I maintain a STINGER platoon with helo support like equipped protecting each Arty platoon and I have an Area SAM section off map as well with all the previous units thus far mentioned for each arty platoon. Well that's crap and I'd say review your history of battlefield doctrine, expand the size of the arty units and that's about what you had during the Cold War minus the helos. Most studies showed, for what they're worth, that air power during that "projected" conflict except in the initial stage of attack and retaliation would be nullified. So anyway, now that I've spent my off map money in protecting my arty, I guess I can CB yours if I choose to now, after of course I buy my on map equipment, because that would require a software change to have two separate "accounts". I'm sure Andy and Don will get right on that. As has been mentioned you don't want it, don't use it! Limit the spending amount-great! Change your game settings for arty even better. Days like these make me thankful the AI understands the use of combined arms in a tactical situation to achieve a strategic victory if possible at the end of a generated long campaign. Since everyone else is asking for stuff and Christmas is around the corner, could you make the AI a little more intuitive? And please don't forget my off map CAP as I feel I'll be getting into my foxhole soon to prepare for any incoming (Can you slip in a DEEP underground off map bunker as well and I'll keep a CAP over it to.).

Aren't you glad there's not too many "bubbleheads" around we can tend to be so...rambunctious well annoying (Or worse would be better.) at times.

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by EOT

That is what the Allies(U.S.) did during the Gulf War(1990). Once they had air superiority they went hunting for Iraqi Arty and CB'd with MLRS & Air strikes. The Allies were afraid of the Iraqi arty because they had base bleed ammunition and smooth bore arty with longer range capability. One of the reason's Gerald Bull was assassinated in 1990 for his work on an Iraqi Supergun.

Actually from what I know of Gulf I (I was working at the 2nd MarDiv HQ at the time) due to the USAF overall control of air assets it generally took longer to get an airstrike authorized then the window of opportunity for a strike (at least once the Iraqis learned to relocate their artillery 3 or 4 times a day) Air generally hunted targets of opportunity in their assigned "kill box". They did occasionally happen to spot artillery and bomb it. Close air support in the USMC sense was not permitted by USAF doctrine.

For the most part the MLRS (at least the ones assigned to 2nd MarDiv) worked hand-in-hand with the counter-battery radar to get targeting information. Frequently the radar fed the info to the MLRS and it fired a counter-battery barrage while the first Iraqi salvo was still in the air. I spoke to a survivor of one Iraqi 152mm battery and he said they'd keep a running vehicle nearby and yank the lanyard to fire a shell and run to the vehicle then drive like hell to get out of the impact area of the MLRS.

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Aren't you glad there's not too many "bubbleheads" around we can tend to be so...rambunctious well annoying (Or worse would be better.) at times.

I think Andy & Don may prefer bubbleheads to jarheads at times

[EOT]

I guess that's one of the reasons they were surrendering to closest Allied units. You pull lanyard! No you pull lanyard!!

[runequester]

It'd be nice if off map batteries had some random variable in determining how far "off map" they are located. A battery won't always be located at the absolute furthest possible distance from the battle area after all.

Alternatively maybe abstract it by having some sort of penalty to the "experience check" for the unit wishing to perform counter battery, based on difference in range?

[gila]

Are some getting out of touch with reality and forgetting this a game here after all?

It's not the actual ranges in real world and how they should exactly correlate to the game,but what works well with the game,it's getting like beating dead horse now!