The Joys of Overzealous Moderators

[Gandalf Parker]

Cant we all just get along? There are two boards and they are both wonderful, marvelous, fantastic.
They get about the same amount of posting traffic.
They both serve a function.
They both have a user base who seems happy with it.
And, they are both, wonderful examples of what results from their policies.

People keep stating things about one or the other loudly as if they are arguing. I dont see a lot of error in anything that is being said about either board. The other side might not WORD it quite that way and make it sound like more of that boards advantage but that isnt really arguing is it?

There is no reason to try and get either one to operate like the other one. And no need to try and convince them that they should be unhappy with their forum. Everything has its pros and cons. So as long as (A) both boards allow guest viewing and (B) both boards allow the mention of the other board, then people will be able to find the one that fits their preferences. The end result will be decided by Internet Democracy at its finest (usage).

[Executor]

brxbrx, Wendigo, I'm not defending Calahan here, but;
The guy is always helpful but has a short fuse when people are wasting his times and posting BS. He usually gives you one chance before he starts to rant relentlessly, but I get where his frustration comes from.

Personally, I'd be happier if players like you brxbrx didn't bother to always try to answer any question, as from what I see you tend to give wrong answers more often than not. If and when you don't know the answer or are not sure, please don't answer because you feel the urge to answer and end up confusion people. Or if you do, advise people to take it with a grain of salt. Especially since you're a SP fan and anything which sound good in SP is usually crap for MP.
The only worse thing I find is when someone claims something very wrong about a certain game mechanic and won't accept the fact that he's wrong, even when explained or given proof, so he just goes on to spread more BS.
A lot of people, including me for example, have stopped trying to answer any newb question here entirely because is too damn frustrating to have to deal with all the **** that comes with providing a simple answer.

Ideally, I'd like here to be a sticky which directs newbs with questions to dom3mods, since no matter what you all might think, people there are much more helpful and straightforward. BS will be called on, and trolls will be marked as such.

[rdonj]

Of course you put him on ignore, ghoul, you've put everyone who ever publicly disagreed with you ever on ignore. One cannot even tell you simply in polite terms that you're wrong without making your ignore list. So I don't think that being on it means much of anything, honestly.

Wendigo - there are rather some differences, such as a banned person being literally incapable of posting messages. There was recently a guy that came onto the other board just to argue with the invisions people. He never got banned for that :P So you're again arguing a non-point.

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Cant we all just get along?

How are you old chap? it's been over a decade since our first game together, back with the comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategy crew, and I see that you are still offering disinterested hosting services, same as then.

You have always been a genuinely good guy. I manage people for a living nowadays, and I guess that makes me much more unforgiving. If you let behaviour like this fester in a corporate environment, the end result is a dead company.

Your conciliatory tone is even more ironic considering how much you have been the target of Callaghan's puns. He should be doubly ashamed. Thrice, considering that you might likely have the age to be his grandfather.

Whatever, if you do not want to push the issue, neither will I. I dislike Callaghan the incarnation, but I have nothing against Callaghan the player: if he joins the forum under a new name & a new attitude, it's a clean record as far as I am concerned. He could call himself Callaghan_Reloaded for all I care, I doubt Shrapnel would care either.

Executor:
Callaghan is obviously a perfectionist type. i know the type well enough: my wife is the same, and we have been married for over 12 years.

Perfectionists at their best are a great asset to any organization/community, they are incredibly energetic and focused, so they get **** done.

At their worst, however, they are a handicap, they fixate so much on the mistakes of others that they become a source of trouble & conflict, alienating other members and preventing them from reaching their full potential.

It's easy to see how Callaghan has been both things for this comunity.

Rdonj: He has his friends, such as you, to vouch for him. He can re-join and speak for himself. He is far from defenseless. Who vouches for your targets in Invision? I bet anyone that shows to defend himself will rather suffer a piling on. That's exactly the way of old boys clubs, bullies & hive minds. Do not expect an applause if that's the way you choose to act.
Besides, your place->your rules. This is Shrapnel's place, guess who gets to write the rules here.
You are the one who is missing the point because of your coloured glasses, try to be more objective.

Really, the cards are on the table. Callaghan gets to choose whether he wants to be a valuable asset for the Dominions community or just a troublemaker.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally Posted by Wendigo_reloaded

How are you old chap? it's been over a decade since our first game together, back with the comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategy crew, and I see that you are still offering disinterested hosting services, same as then.

Im 56, my sons are mid 30s. Hopefully not quite the age to be grandpa to those here but I guess it could squeeze thru. I still haunt sissy pigs. Ive been on Internet since before it was called Internet.

You have always been a genuinely good guy. I manage people for a living nowadays, and I guess that makes me much more unforgiving. If you let behaviour like this fester in a corporate environment, the end result is a dead company.

Exactly the key. Corporate environment. And its a corporate environment which supports a game. Being compared to a forum which is fan owned and fan operated.

Your conciliatory tone is even more ironic considering how much you have been the target of Callaghan's puns. He should be doubly ashamed. Thrice, considering that you might likely have the age to be his grandfather.

Yeah I get flak for that. Ive been told to change (usually for a job) but by now they just have to accept that its me. Change is unlikely. All I did was move on to another job that wanted what I am. Less effort that way. And makes for a very diverse resume.

Now Im health retired so I care even less.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally Posted by Wendigo_reloaded

Whatever, if you do not want to push the issue, neither will I. I dislike Callaghan the incarnation, but I have nothing against Callaghan the player: if he joins the forum under a new name & a new attitude, it's a clean record as far as I am concerned. He could call himself Callaghan_Reloaded for all I care, I doubt Shrapnel would care either.

Ive fought that battle online since before internet. "You know you cant really keep me out". And the official answer would never be "we dont care". But seriously, Ample gets booted off for being rude and then creates ex-Ample to sneak back in. He contributes to the posts and conversations but to not get caught he acts completely different than he did before.
Oh Ouch.

[Edi]

So, the people carping most loudly about Calahan's banning and how he was such a bad person and always mean to them are the ones whose posts I long ago stopped reading (unless required for thread moderation purposes) on account of it being such a colossal waste of my time 99 times out of 100. How unsurprising.

Calahan may have been an abrasive poster under certain conditions, but given the number of times I had to moderate threads where he participated, it generally came down to the following sort of exchange:

Newbie: *asks question*
Poster X: *specious, incorrect answer*
Calahan: "No, that's not how it works, it's [correct answer]"
Newbie: "Thanks!"
Poster X: "But how can you be saying that because under the conditions of [entirely different situation] my answer..."
Calahan: "Your situation did not apply and even if it did [essay length correct explanation for that situation]"
Poster X: You still don't understand and you're clearly wrong! [holds forth, still on wrong track]
Calahan: *annoyed answer*
Poster X: *more Wall of Ignorance*
Calahan: *pulls out flamethrower*


Sometimes it took a longer time, sometimes it took a shorter while, but that was the general pattern on all those occasions. And when he was told to back down, Calahan did so.

Nobody appreciates having their time wasted and over time people who do waste someone else's time tend to start getting shorter and shorter slack for it until there is nothing at all and they get told to sod off from the get-go.

I'm also rather amused at the indignation toward Calahan for being such a bad person for sometimes being short with certain people or even *gasp* using rude language. Generally (not limited to this forum only) I see that behavior mostly from people who have absolutely no problem wasting massive amounts of people's time, repeating their already discredited arguments ad nauseam and then swooning and reaching for the smelling salts the second someone loses patience with them and calls them out on it. How dare that person be rude to them?! As if it wasn't rude to repeatedly ignore his arguments and waster his time and perhaps even insult him into the bargain, albeit less directly.

Now, which one of those behaviors is actually more offensive?


As another point I would like to bring up, I do not see it as very good sportsmanship to come out of the woodwork to bash a person who was banned without warning and is thus unable to even defend himself at this venue.

There are opinions both for and against the banning among the forum members, as we have seen here, though to me it seems very much that there are a great deal more of those against than those who approve of the events. But for the time being, it is a done deal. The only way it would change is if the Shrapnel administrators decide to reverse their decision through whatever rationale.

If those who agree and approve of the decision to ban Calahan wish to gloat about it, they are free to do so in private elsewhere, but I am not going to put up with it in this thread.

Now, if you like to discuss what types of approaches to debate and making arguments one should preferably use and other such things with the posters here, go for it.

[Edi]

Originally Posted by Wendigo_reloaded

Besides, your place->your rules. This is Shrapnel's place, guess who gets to write the rules here.
You are the one who is missing the point because of your coloured glasses, try to be more objective.

Really, the cards are on the table. Callaghan gets to choose whether he wants to be a valuable asset for the Dominions community or just a troublemaker.

The catch here being of course that given past precedent for banning high octane contributors who may on occasion be troublesome, Calahan got the rawest deal for the least offenses that I have seen in six years, bar none: A summary ban without warning or public explanation.

Aside from including something (I don't know exactly what) about another poster in his sig, he hasn't done anything I haven't done at some point or another, though I did put some additional safeties (such as they are) on the flamethrower way back when I was made a moderator.

So it is not difficult to see why this caused such an uproar, because the question about the consistency of the enforcement of the rules and the basis on which it is done is, to those not privy to additional information, completely legitimate.

[Amhazair]

Originally Posted by ghoul31

Yea he was always making personal attacks against me. So i finally had to put him on ignore. So I can definitely see why he was banned.

Good job on pulling that sentence completely out of its context. This exactly the kind Calahan called people out on, and exactly the reason many of the other best players with less perseverance have (partially) given up on trying to answer/help/give advice...

You can hardly open your mouth around these parts without some dumb schmuck (Or malevolent troll) ignoring what you said, arguing againt it pointlessly without a shred of evidence to back them up, pulling it out of context or otherwise over every effort to be helpful.