M4 Carbine Range question

[DRG]

It does not say the M27 will replace all M4s is says

The M27 Infantry Automatic Rifle will replace the M4 carbine in many combat-related positions. Other troops will continue to use the M4.

"in many" does not = "all" so the M4 is not going to disapear

Many years ago when the idea of turning SPWW2 into SPMBT began there were discussions that involved a number of people , not just Andy and I, and it was agreed that standardized ranges based on how we knew the game worked the data we inherited from SSI were the best compromise given how big we suspected the database was going to get so there is a ( mostly ) uniform constant for rifles using full strength cartridges, intermediate cartridges, carbines, SMG's and pistols and we have for the majority of infantry weapons like that but there will always be exceptions that creep in when the database is as large as they are for the two games and when multiple people were involved in the early OOB work. Once ACOG type optics started being common we increased the accuracy of the rifles they were attached to and added one hex to their range and we considered that a fair trade-off and still do in a game where how well the rifle functions in it's intended purpose is more reliant on the Experience and Morale values of the units that use it not max range fire.

That said nearly 20 years of work has no doubt introduced some unwanted variables. I did notice on a check I ran that there are Type 56 rifles and Type 56 carbines and while the carbines have a HEkill of 2 vs 3 for the rifle version their range is consistent at 8 but there was a phase early on when there were multiple people working on OOB's that "national naming" was in vogue so if one nation used the word "carbine" to describe a rifle then "carbine" was used and maybe it really wasn't a short barreled weapon. That said where their are Rifles and Carbines of the same type listed in an OOB the carbine version should not have the range the rifle version does and that will be investigated and I have found wider variances in the range of the various "M4" carbines both for range and HEK than I expected to but given there are 1413 Weaponclass 1 weapons in the game ( we have a program that counts things like that ) it's not a simple or easy project

Edit.

I have found consistencies and happily for me it was the first one I seriously looked into.

The M1 and M2 in all the OOB's are consistent for all the M1's data and all the M2's data and (hopefully) I will find many more as I dig through this but ( surprise, surprise ) the one weapon type that I have ( so far ) found the widest range of different values over what amounts to a dozen or so entries in various OOB's is the M4/M4A1 and why that is exactly IDK but they will all be normalized to a consistent set of values that fits the game parameters and removing inconsistencies between similar weapons as happened with the M4/M4A1 is what I am setting out to do but SO FAR I am finding more consistencies than inconsistencies but it's a large database and it's going to take while

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Everyone has brought up good points here.

And I would have hoped to some degree Andy and Don could've taken a little breather after the Patch Release. But things come up after a release and somethings just need immediate attention at times concerning BOTH games.

It's clear to me that Don has already indicating that it seems he's going through the data base to address the "inconsistencies" as they arise. I only hope he's making time for his walks and enjoy a "liquid refresher" as needed. And it goes without saying that Andy enjoys the view and does the same.

I would suggest also in "loose" terms no one has mentioned the weapon interface with the shooter. I purpose that any "future inconsistencies" unless of course there's "hard data" to support otherwise, that we chock up some of these "inaccuracies", and using the game term (RL also.) EXPRIENCE.

The term covers a broad range of issues such as training, "stress", morale and whatever other calculus is used.

I offer myself as a case study (And please note I can't address some issues that fall under "non-disclosure".)

When in the USN/SS we were issued the 1911 Colt .45 through the course of my career (The 9mm came about around the time I retired in 2002.).

I shot as Qualified/Marksman/Expert (Once) in order of "how often".

When I started my current job back in 2004 we used the PK-89 9mm that weapon I truly disliked, I have big hands and it still never "felt" right and the sights, well use any adjective you wish here, weren't that great in my opinion. For this and currently, we are expected to qualify as set forth by the USN, we shoot as an active duty member is expected with the same course of fire.

I shot Qualified.

About 8-10 years ago we received our new 9mm's and you would've thought it was Christmas!!
Marksman first time out/Expert/Qualified (Once) a note about this is, I had a "real bad day" with a family member and will simply say, I shouldn't have been on the range that day due to my stress level.

My training Lt./Rng. Master and I talked about it afterwards as he saw for the first time I didn't "have my game face" on at the range. That was almost three years ago. I keep it in my head to learn from it, since then EXPERT again.

This was to illustrate the point I'm trying make at the top of this.

Also don't "our troops" (AI's well.) get a little better over time? Some of you might not see this because of how you play the game(s), I do as I always, again, play long campaigns that last at least 21 to 31 battles over the course of 12-18 months.

Wasn't a "slouch" when it came to the M-14 (My favorite.) and M-16A3 (Both w/USN and work early on, under a different contract at the time.).

Anyway have a Great Day!!

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Also don't "our troops" (AI's well.) get a little better over time? Some of you might not see this because of how you play the game(s), I do as I always, again, play long campaigns that last at least 21 to 31 battles over the course of 12-18 months.
Regards,
Pat

If all you play are campaigns and you keep your core units with at least one man healthy by the end of their battle and you don't have to fully replace units then yes YOU WILL see them get better over time and that will be reflected on how well they engage targets as they gain battle experience no matter if its infantry or a tank crew

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

In response to Post #21, boy did things get busy here!?!

I've had MBT's with just over a 100 kills.

And to be clear, I've lost some of those tanks as well. I'm not saving them for some kind of "Hall of Fame", everyone fights the same "under my command".

I now chose to retreat from here!?!

Regards,
Pat


Compromise is a wonderful thing, maybe our Congress should read this thread!?! Well done, everyone!!!! Yes, I really mean it.