game styles

[Krsqk]

I think the other "advantage" to organics weapons is that you get several different kinds of weapons quickly; low damage reload 1's; higher damage reload 2's; and seekers that do more dmg/kt/turn than CSMs--all for 1 tech area which is cheaper than, say, PPB+torps+missiles. Which only would be an advantage in very early game, due to the power of PDC. Now, give EDs 2x to shields, and they might be a little more appealing.

[spoon]

[quote]Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

Sure they cost organics instead of Minerals, and that lowers build time of the ship by a turn. But they are much weaker in combat. To me, this isn't worth.

If it lowers the Build Time from 2 turns to 1, I'd have to disagree with you there... Even 3 turns to 2 would be worthwhile.
And really, if you are spending more than 2 turns to build any Organic ship, you probably shouldn't have taken Organic Tech to begin with...

-Spoon

[PvK]

The organic resource thing is a huge advantage (not just for reduced build time, although that is a big advantage), as are the multiple weapons in one tech area. The acid weapons have the advantage of being able to nail units (which most torpedoes can't), and the parasite reload rate of 2 can keep them effective even in late-game, particularly when used in combined arms deployments with fighters and drones and direct-fire warships.

It's true that other weapons achieve better damage per weapon. So, organic is not the one uber trait, but their weapons are definitely a valid and effective choice.

PvK

[Fyron]

Those multiple weapons come at a ridiculously high research cost. Acid weapons (like torpedoes) have too small of a damage ratio to really be useful. You can max out DUCs before getting 2 levels in Organic Weapons (except maybe on high tech cost). As I showed earlier, it take a lot of levels of Organic Weapons to get them to be as strong as DUCs. But by the time you have spent that much research, you could have maxed out PPBs (as well as researching plenty of other stuff). PPBs are stronger than all organic weapons. They only suffer from the slightly lower range at the highest levels of Organic Weapons (which cost a ludicrous amount of research).

The different kinds of weapons quickly doesn't matter too much, really, because most of them are useless compared to the other Organic weapons. Researching many levels in Missiles is generally a bad idea, as PDCs easily overwhelm missiles. So, the fact that you get beams and parasites from 1 tech area doesn't really give too much benefit.

Spoon, I assume that you are implying the use of retro-series builds there, and discounting BSYs. DUC and PPB ships can be retro-series built just as easily as Organic ships can. Sure you can build them faster, but pound-for-pound, they do not match up to normal ships in combat.

Its nice arguing against multiple people at once.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Spoon, I assume that you are implying the use of retro-series builds there, and discounting BSYs. DUC and PPB ships can be retro-series built just as easily as Organic ships can. Sure you can build them faster, but pound-for-pound, they do not match up to normal ships in combat.

Handeled correctly, an organic race can build ships roughly twice as fast as an otherwise identical non-organic race without doing any sort of retrofit series stuff. And you can support more in maintenance. Yes it may be true that you lost 3 ships for every 2 the other guy loses, but when you can build 2 or 3 for every one he can, it's very easy to overwhelm them.

It doesn't matter how many ships each of you loses, it only matters who runs out first.

That being said, the organic race alone is definetly not an uber-race.

Geoschmo

[Fyron]

And just how would you handle building ships twice as quickly, while still maintaining all those vital components that cost only minerals?

[Krsqk]

Silly rabbit. If build times are faster, it's because the design costs fewer minerals. If costs are more evenly spread across min/org/rad, then maintenance will be more evenly spread out as well.