DienBienPhu- How difficult to convert?

Gurachn · #1 September 11th, 2011, 04:08 AM

I recently found what seems to be an excellent and detailed 12-scenario SP3 campaign of this epic battle.

I had an opportunity to visit the battle site in August, and seeing the grounds and the surrounding hills really brought home the deperate situation those Paras and Foreign Legionaires faced in that valley.
It has put the hook in me to see if I could do any better against Vo Nguyen Giap than DeCastries did.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any WinSPMBT compatible scenarios covering the major actions at DBP.
Only this SP3 one.
How difficult would it be to convert it to MBT?

iCaMpWiThAWP · #2 September 12th, 2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurachn

I recently found what seems to be an excellent and detailed 12-scenario SP3 campaign of this epic battle.

I had an opportunity to visit the battle site in August, and seeing the grounds and the surrounding hills really brought home the deperate situation those Paras and Foreign Legionaires faced in that valley.
It has put the hook in me to see if I could do any better against Vo Nguyen Giap than DeCastries did.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any WinSPMBT compatible scenarios covering the major actions at DBP.
Only this SP3 one.
How difficult would it be to convert it to MBT?

You'd have to remake them in winSPMBT and i don't think there is a magic converter to do this. And even if there is one, you'd have to deal with oobs, scale(wasn't sp3 brigade or so scaled?) and the map. But there are some scenarios on this theme for MBT

Gurachn · #3 September 13th, 2011, 01:03 AM

Ah, that's unfortunate, but not entirely unexpected.

Is there any chance that the maps or any of the unit info can be extracted from the files?
Its clear that the original maker put in a lot of work and research, so being able to make use of this info would be much easier than starting from scratch.

Yes, there are a couple of Indochina themed scenarios, but strangely none dealing with the main actions around DienBienPhu.

Considering the size, historical importance, and sheer drama of this battle, I'm really surprised that it hasn't been dealt with in the game.

Suhiir · #4 September 14th, 2011, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurachn

Ah, that's unfortunate, but not entirely unexpected.

Is there any chance that the maps or any of the unit info can be extracted from the files?
Its clear that the original maker put in a lot of work and research, so being able to make use of this info would be much easier than starting from scratch.

Yes, there are a couple of Indochina themed scenarios, but strangely none dealing with the main actions around DienBienPhu.

Considering the size, historical importance, and sheer drama of this battle, I'm really surprised that it hasn't been dealt with in the game.

If you can get ahold of "Steel Panthers World at War" there is a DienBienPhu campaign in it (tho it's really just a few linked battles rather then a campaign).

Gurachn · #5 September 14th, 2011, 10:01 AM

Thanks for the suggestion Suhiir.
I have that, but it doesn't seem to me to be a very close representation of the battle. Besides its pretty large scale and the 800x600 is a bit limiting.
It would be amazing to get a birds eye view of the different firebases at 1680x1050!

The campaign I found for SP3 seems to be a lot more meticulously researched, from what I can tell from the accompanying txt.
Too bad it seems to be unusable in MBT!

iCaMpWiThAWP · #6 September 14th, 2011, 12:02 PM

You(or anyone else that has sp3) could open up the campaign and note things down then adapt it to MBT, this would take some less research, but still a lot of time.

Mobhack · #7 September 14th, 2011, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurachn

Thanks for the suggestion Suhiir.
I have that, but it doesn't seem to me to be a very close representation of the battle. Besides its pretty large scale and the 800x600 is a bit limiting.
It would be amazing to get a birds eye view of the different firebases at 1680x1050!

The campaign I found for SP3 seems to be a lot more meticulously researched, from what I can tell from the accompanying txt.
Too bad it seems to be unusable in MBT!

Since the "battle" was in actual fact a siege over several months then it really does not fit any sort of single-battle scenario. A campaign would therefore be best (With no or little repair/reinforcement). The campaign could then showcase a few key "active" assault scenarios perhaps.

There is quite simply no sane way to write any form of conversion utility for SP3 to SP1.
- Each hex is 250 metres, not 50. i.e. about 5x5 WinSPMBT hexes per SP3 hex.
- The contour system is totally different (SP3 had just 3 hill levels, we have 15).
- Each unit is potentially a platoon (2-5 elements). So formation structure does not quite marry up.
- SP3 turn time is also about 5 or ten minutes? - so ~ 5 or 10 times the turn allowance.

So all you can do is take notes and then manually create a map making each SP3 map hex a 5x5 WinSPMBT matrix (and fleshing out the individual detail thereof) and then manually recreate the SP3 command structure etc.

Andy

Gurachn · #8 September 15th, 2011, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Since the "battle" was in actual fact a siege over several months then it really does not fit any sort of single-battle scenario. A campaign would therefore be best (With no or little repair/reinforcement). The campaign could then showcase a few key "active" assault scenarios perhaps.

There is quite simply no sane way to write any form of conversion utility for SP3 to SP1.
- Each hex is 250 metres, not 50. i.e. about 5x5 WinSPMBT hexes per SP3 hex.
- The contour system is totally different (SP3 had just 3 hill levels, we have 15).
- Each unit is potentially a platoon (2-5 elements). So formation structure does not quite marry up.
- SP3 turn time is also about 5 or ten minutes? - so ~ 5 or 10 times the turn allowance.

So all you can do is take notes and then manually create a map making each SP3 map hex a 5x5 WinSPMBT matrix (and fleshing out the individual detail thereof) and then manually recreate the SP3 command structure etc.

Andy

Thanks Andy, totally understand the difficulties in conversion.

My question at this point is if there is any way to extract the maps and data from the SP3 files in order to use use as a model to base the new maps and units on.
That would save a lot of time and effort, if so.

I'm afraid I don't have a copy of SP3 or I would fire that up and grab some screens.

Mobhack · #9 September 15th, 2011, 01:45 PM

From my original post:

Quote:

There is quite simply no sane way to write any form of conversion utility

It's up to you to do it manually. Multiply the SP3 map size by 5 and create a new map. Plot each SP3 hex into a 5x5 matrix of 50m hexes (you may want to lay out the flat WinSPMBT map in 5x5 grids of alternate colours - using, say long grass and plain).

Andy

iCaMpWiThAWP · #10 September 16th, 2011, 04:03 PM

Alternatively, you could get some maps on the area if you want a much more precise one, you can get amazing detail in winSPMBT if you can use the tools at your disposal.

There's this french site about it, there's an interesting read, i'm not sure if all the website was translated into english, i couldn't find any maps though.
http://www.dienbienphu.org/english/index.htm