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[thejeff]

Because Van and Eriu especially rely on thugs much more heavily. They use them where many other nations use troops and/or battle mages.

They're also non-capital thugs. A nation using capital-only thugs is still going to be limited by thug production more than by gear forging. Van/Eriu are limited only by how much gear they can forge, so they'll be fielding many less, while others won't be handicapped as much.

[Adept]

What an interesting thread.

I'm going to create a mod for my Dominions group's next game that addresses some balance problems.

Most significantly forging cost reducing items will be removed. The Forge of the Ancients will lose the discount effect and quite likely be moved to a lvl 9 construction. Price halved to 40 earth gems.

Gem generating items will be modified for other purpose or removed.

***

The reason for the above is that the gem economy is at least as important as the gold economy and control of resources. The forging cost reductions and especially the damnable Forge of the Ancients really messes up that part of the game. I want the cost of a Staff of Elemental Mastery to be the full 50 gems.

***

The other thing that will be fixed is werewolves. The general setting material in Dominions (since the original) has skin shifters dropping their weapons and using claws and fangs in close combat. For some odd reason though, a commander werewolf has access to all equipment slots.

That is just a minor problem, but the case of the Jotun Giant Werewolf is an atrocity. The Skratti that can turn into a werewolf is an utterly unbalanced commander. The wolf form has way too many perks and immunities, and for some insane reason it's stronger than a male titan or Dragon. >.<

Our current game has slightly turned into a farce because of these recruitable fromt the start SC monsters who can cast quicken self from early on, and get luck and etherealness cast on them by the cheap recruit anywhere hags.

Here's an early game example:

[quantum_mechani]

Originally Posted by Adept

The Forge of the Ancients will lose the discount effect

Unfortunately this is not possible without removing all FotA effects. Tweaking ritual effects (unless they summon something) isn't supported with modding.

Dropping hand slots on werewolves is an interesting idea, though it is unfortunate it would nerf non-giant werewolves which are already a bit borderline for thugging.

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

Dropping hand slots on werewolves is an interesting idea, though it is unfortunate it would nerf non-giant werewolves which are already a bit borderline for thugging.

Doesn't the Skratti's werewolf form have its own monster number, different from the human size werewolves?

[quantum_mechani]

Originally Posted by Valerius

Doesn't the Skratti's werewolf form have its own monster number, different from the human size werewolves?

Certainly, just thinking of consistency.

[quantum_mechani]

I will say one thing for certain about this poll- it has caused me to reconsider the removal of powerful bonus sites. While people seem to regard being unique and being removed as interchangeable for items, I personally find the fact that they are still in the game a significant plus, and likely would not have considered an outright removal of them. The reasoning with sites is that their removal is not really removing on option, but it is admittedly removing content. I think sites do have the potential to 'ruin' games, but probably not consistently, so if the general opinion is they should stay, that seems fair enough.

Hammers are a very different matter, and not just because making them unique is not strictly removing content. Almost all complaints I have heard about the change seems as though they can be fixed with a bit of national balance and/or a slight increase in site frequency in games (this while maintaining the benefits in terms of reduced micromanagement, and the bizarre skewed pretender design hammers caused). There may also be repercussions for specific items in terms of worthwhileness of pricing, but this swings both ways- the available prices for things are no more or less finely grained than before, some items can be priced more appropriately while others must be priced less appropriately.

It has been said the most recent CB actually goes in the direction of reducing possible strategic options, but this seems a difficult interpretation to take. Whatever there is not to like about the hammer change, it is hard to argue that not requiring 3-4 e on a non-e nation's pretender doesn't present more options, or that not needing to beeline right for SDRs with a blood strategy doesn't open up new possibilities. It's the fact that these so called 'options' were indispensable that causes the difficulties, and while it's possible that changing them can cascade into making other options less attractive, these are all presumably independently addressable problems.

[Adept]

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

Unfortunately this is not possible without removing all FotA effects. Tweaking ritual effects (unless they summon something) isn't supported with modding.

Dropping hand slots on werewolves is an interesting idea, though it is unfortunate it would nerf non-giant werewolves which are already a bit borderline for thugging.

Oh right? Well I won't miss Forge of the Ancients if I have to remove it altogether. It's a broken bit of op cheese.

As for the werewolves, I plan to swap the "claw" to "claws", so they get 2 claw attacks and a bite without weapons.

[thejeff]

Most of what you suggest can't be done.
I don't believe you can remove the Forge's discount. I know you can't actually change the gem-generating properties of items. You can remove them, make them unique, or change the paths/cost.

And the Skratti are nice, but vulnerable due to low mr. Even with 2 items that one only has 21, he'll die to a few mages spamming Soul Slay.

[Zeldor]

Well, funny solution to OP werewolves is to have Wolf as 2nd form, not 3rd

[Warhammer]

Also, I would like to second the thought that it is due to the excellent work on CBM in the past that has led to the spirited debate here during the last week.