Bulgarian OOB19 v.9

[Pibwl]

Few comments, mostly for aircraft, basing upon "Air Power of the Kingdom of Bulgaria" books vol. 3 and 4.

I'm also attaching some pictures in better quality.

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116 Dewoitine D.520 - used from 9/43 (now 7/43)


117,118 Letov S 328 - bought in summer 1939, according to Czech book on B.534 (now 3/39 - only a moment of German occupation of Czechoslovakia)

BTW: the Bulgarian name was S.328 Vrana


119 Avia B.534 - bought in summer 1939, as above (now 1/39). It sure couldn't carry 4x50 kg bombs - in Czech service only 6x10 kg or 4x20 kg, according to the mentioned book. Same for unit 267.

BTW: the name could be B.534 Dogan.

120 Ju 87D Stuka - according to Air Power... vol4, a standard load was 500 kg and 4x50 (now 250 and 4x50). Same for unit 268.


121 Ju 87B Stuka - Bulgaria didn't use 87B, but similar 87R, from autumn of 1943 only. 1000 kg bomb is doubtful - it rather couldn't carry such bomb. Should be 500 kg. It could receive an own photo, different from Ju 87D (attached). Same for 263.


123,140 PZL-P-43 - correct name is PZL-43 ("P" was generally reserved in Poland for fighters). They were named Chaika. A pre-war entry could receive an own photo (attached)

In other variant it could carry 24x12 kg bombs, if such small ones are useful (weapon 193 in Polish OOB).

124,129 PZL P-24F - Bulgaria used only P-24B, armed with 4 MGs (locally named PZL-24B Yastreb - 'hawk'). Bulgarian book doesn't mention bombs in this type (it was treated as interceptor), Polish sources state 4x12kg for this type.

126,272,278 Avia B.71 - bombs should be in kilos (up to 600 kg). Locally named Jerav or Zherav (crane).


132,274 Ju 52 - could be named Ju 52/3m Sova ('owl')

According to Air Power.. vol.4, parachute units were created in Bulgaria on 1 July 43 (now 1/43 - it would concern all para units and formations..)
BTW: is there any use of paratroop transport planes before introduction of parachute units?..


133 Aero MB200 - could be named MB200 Buhal. It could take 1400 kg bombs, so maybe other variants can be introduced (with 100 kg bombs?).

It could carry 1400 kg of bombs, so maybe it's worth to copy it with heavier bomb load, eg. 4 x 3 x 100kg (I don't know if it carried heavier ones) - maybe in a place of MB.210 below.

134 Aero MB 210 - Air Power of the Kingdom of Bulgaria doesn't mention MB 210 in Bulgarian service at all. Aero didn't manufacture Bloch MB 210 anyway, only MB 200.

135 and other Do 17 - local name was Uragan ('hurricane')

139 Dornier 11 - Bulgarian name was Do 11 Prilep ('bat')

147 Bf 109F - there's no mention on 109F in Bulgarian service, only E and G. It should be changed to E-7 with #161 MGs instead of 165, keeping bomb armament, and possibly lower speed. They were delivered in 1941. Photo could be 4036.


157 Heinkel 51 - could be named He 51 Sokol ('falcon').
According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_51 it could only carry 6x10 kg bombs, however most web pages don't quote any bombs (maybe a basic fighter version didn't carry bombs?). Neither does Air Power.. vol.3.

158 Arado 65 - could be named Ar 65 Orel ('eagle')
It is rather doubtful, if it could carry a single 50-kg bomb (rather not typical for a fighter from that period). I couldn't find info if it carried any bombs. Air Power.. vol.3 doesn't quote any in a data sheet.

159 Heinkel 45 - could be named He 45 Shturkel.

269 Bf 109G - could receive its own 1945 photo (attached)


375 Bu-131 Jungmann - Bu-131 was an unarmed trainer. Air power... does not mention its combat usage, nor any armament. 4x50kg bombs for such plane is unbelievable, anyway. Could be a spotter, but Bulgaria had proper spotter aircraft, and didn't have to use trainers in this role.

Its icon could eventually be used for spotter aircraft KB-11 Fazan, which it's worth to create, used from 1943. It could also be used as a light bomber.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapron...ki_KB-11_Fazan
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/spyww2/kb11.html (in this link, the first 3d plan is a prototype)


376 Bf 109B Taifun - there's no info about Bf 109B in Bulgarian service. Possibly it's confused with Bf 108B Taifun (in Bulgaria named Lebed), which was an unarmed liaison and trainer plane.

377 Bf 109E Strela - delivered from 5/40 according to Air Power of the Kingdom of Bulgaria vol.4

[Pibwl]

162 Kaproni KB-5 (avail. 1/36) - better name is KB Chuchuliga - KB-5 Chuchuliga III appeared only in 1939 http://www.airwar.ru/enc/spyww2/kb5.html , earlier there was KB-4 Chuchuliga II in 1938 http://www.airwar.ru/enc/spyww2/kb4.html, earlier KB-2A Chuchuliga available in 1936, although the latter one was a trainer http://www.airwar.ru/enc/other1/kb2.html.

If we'd like to create a bomber before 1937 (when Bulgaria officially created air force) there could be added U-1, which was a copy of DFW C.V https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DFW_C.V , or Potez XVII https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potez_15 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...aria,_1928.jpg. They were used secretly during some manoeuvres with 10 kg bombs. Potez could also serve as a spotter. Polish OOb uses similar (newer) Potez XXV.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

134 Aero MB 210 - Air Power of the Kingdom of Bulgaria doesn't mention MB 210 in Bulgarian service at all. Aero didn't manufacture Bloch MB 210 anyway, only MB 200.


139 Dornier 11 - Bulgarian name was Do 11 Prilep ('bat')

*******134 Aero MB 210 *Bulgarian Air Force received six aircraft from Germany"...it stays now as Bloch MB210

QUOTE:Après l’armistice, 120 MB 210 sont dénombrés en zone non occupée et vingt en Afrique du Nord. 37 sont capturés par les Allemands en 1942, dont six sont cédés à la Bulgarie .


*******Dornier 11.....missed that Icon last time,,,,,new one next release along with a DO-23 for the German OOB to replace the JU-52 "bomber"

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by DRG

*******134 Aero MB 210 *Bulgarian Air Force received six aircraft from Germany"...it stays now as Bloch MB210

QUOTE:Après l’armistice, 120 MB 210 sont dénombrés en zone non occupée et vingt en Afrique du Nord. 37 sont capturés par les Allemands en 1942, dont six sont cédés à la Bulgarie .

That's interesting. Personally I doubt it, for Bulgarian book doesn't know about this type, and surely in 1942 they were fit for nothing more but training (Bulgarians would sure prefer more Do 17s...) - but since the Germans managed to sell them H-39 tanks in 1944, everything is possible...

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The tanks are quite carefully made in this OOB, but I have a few comments:

01 Vickers 6 Ton - according to a Vickers monograph Tank Power series and this Russian page http://alternathistory.com/bronetank...-mirovoi-voine , first were delivered on 4 January 1938, rest in July 1938 (now 1/37 - such year can be met in some articles).
CMG was 8 mm Schwarzlose according to a monograph. Same for unit 282.

02 Ansaldo L.3/33 - when they were sold, they were designated CV-33, but according to https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carro_Veloce_L3/33 they were just known as "Ansaldo-Fiat" (bg.wikipedia pages on tanks have usually separate paragraphs on Bulgarian service, which seem quite reliable, and among sources there is mentioned K. Matev "Бронетанкова техника 1935 – 1945"). Same for unit 283.

03 Skoda Pz 35 (t) - they were known just as Skoda tanks (https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/LT_vz.35) - I guess that Skoda LT vz.35 would be more appropriate, than Pz.35.

04 PzKw 35R 731(f) - there's no page on bg.wikipedia, but I can bet they were known just as Renaults (or even "Reno", like https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0...%BD%D0%BE_FT17) R-35, not PzKpfw.
All publications say, they were grey - icon 1410 is better, especially, that a single known photo shows the tank with a tail. It also shows, that it had a short SA-18 gun, not SA-38.
Same for unit 284, save the camouflage, which might have been green indeed by then.

08 PzKw V - in Bulgaria known as "Pantera"(https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerkampfwagen_V)

09 JPz38(t) Hetzer - in Bulgaria known as Praga assault gun - maybe SO Praga (SO - Shtormovo oridye, assault gun) https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AF...86%D0%B5%D1%80

10 PzKw IVg - in Bulgaria known as Maybach. Initially they were in Wehrmacht olive or Dunkelgelb sand color (as manufactured - icon 1409), only from 1945 they were painted Soviet green - https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerkampfwagen_IV

11 Skoda T-11 - delivered in 9/40 according to a Polish article, or in 10/40 according to https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/LT_vz.35 (now 7/40)

14 StuH 42 - I could find info in any articles, that Bulgaria used StuH 42; there's no mention on https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A9...D1%86%D0%B5_42 either

15 PzKw 39H 735(f) - known just as Hotchkiss (may be also H-39). A preserved tank has short SA-18 gun https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotchkiss_H35

16 JPz IV/70A - according to https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AF...D0%B5%D1%80_IV only one JgPz IV/70 was used (but in ordinary V variant, not Alkett), and one JgPz IV/48. The photo is IV/48.
(They were green, but I know it's not too important to bother...)

It is now in a formation 075 with a single Stug, there might be IV/48 added instead.

287 JPz IV/70A - same as above, but class Assault Gun after 6/45. There is a danger, that a battery with seven such vehicles can be taken... A Polish article says they had 15 Jpz IV in 1946, but I'd rather believe Bulgarian Wikipedia, which describes further fates of both machines.
Same for 288 JPz38(t) Hetzer - there were only four, and 017 Scafo L-40 - only two (although I couldn't find confirmation, that it was this type - there is a mention about two "SPA" vehicles in an article on Turan tank https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2...B0%D0%BD%D0%BA).

I don't know if there is a sense to gather all these vehicles after 6/45 in a common Assault gun class - maybe it's better to keep them separated, like in 3/45-5/45?
Moreover, on a page https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2...B0%D0%BD%D0%BA) there is a mention, that 4 Hetzers and 5 other SP-guns formed a SP-gun battery within the 1st Army. The others were surely 2 Jpz IV and maybe 3 Stugs?.. or a command Turan and two L-40, although they are said to create a recce platoon?
Maybe it's worth to create in 3/45 and keep until the end such mixed unit, instead of formation 12 Assault Gun Bty?

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

That's interesting. Personally I doubt it, for Bulgarian book doesn't know about this type, and surely in 1942 they were fit for nothing more but training (Bulgarians would sure prefer more Do 17s...) - but since the Germans managed to sell them H-39 tanks in 1944, everything is possible...

Maybe they were only used for training.......maybe not but keep in mind we are talking about an unit type ---level bomber------ that few people use in an OOB even fewer use so try to contain your natural desire to nitpick unimportant details that just make work for me. It's in, there's a dedicated Icon for it.....it flys over and drops bombs that go BOOM......and anyone interested in micro details can decide if they want to use it or not


Lets run a little survey

1/ HAS ANYONE EVER USED THE LEVEL BOMBERS IN THE BULGARIAN OOB IN A GAME ??

2/ HAS ANYONE EVER PLAYED BULGARIA AS P1 OR AS AN OPPONENT ??

Michel, you really scraping the bottom of the barrel nitpicking Bulgaria......You are arguing whether the introduction date for a Skoda T-11 is 7/40 as we have it....or 9/40 becasue you have a polish article that says that and I can't verify.......or 10/40 that a Bulgarian Wiki claims is correct and we don't know where that info comes from and they might be referring to when the units were organized into formations in the army and our info might be referring to when the train carrying them arrived in Bulgaria.....it could be either but it's largely irrelevant--- different sources will ALWAYS differ.......... and on top of that Bulgaria never entered the war for nearly another YEAR ! ( for what it was worth......they only joined so they could get a piece of Greece.....and they didn't even participate !! )

I'd be "thrilled " to find out if anyone actually plays as Bulgaria let alone uses the level bombers.....the ONLY reason there are so many in there is in my spare time I like modeling aircraft Icons.....when I actually HAVE "spare time"


Don

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by DRG

2/ HAS ANYONE EVER PLAYED BULGARIA AS P1 OR AS AN OPPONENT ??


....

I'd be "thrilled " to find out if anyone actually plays as Bulgaria let alone uses the level bombers.....the ONLY reason there are so many in there is in my spare time I like modeling aircraft Icons.....when I actually HAVE "spare time"

Well, I'm sure there are some Bulgarians, who play Bulgaria

We admire your icons
It's the thing I can't do.

I didn't vote to remove MB-210 in last post, it was only my opinion.

BTW, as for Dornier 11 - it's hard to find any color drawing, but it seems they were grey http://modelingmadness.com/review/preww2/attarddo11.htm (although the model there uses late markings)

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

.

BTW, as for Dornier 11 - it's hard to find any color drawing, but it seems they were grey http://modelingmadness.com/review/preww2/attarddo11.htm (although the model there uses late markings)

Yes, I know

[Griefbringer]

Originally Posted by DRG

I'd be "thrilled " to find out if anyone actually plays as Bulgaria let alone uses the level bombers.....

I think that I have at some point played a late war scenario that comes with the game that pits Germans against a joint attack by Bulgarians and Soviets. Cannot recall the name or number for that one. But that is probably the only time I have played a game involving Bulgarians. I have taken a glance at their OOB at some point, however.

As for level bombers (in any OOB), I tend to find them rather uninteresting gaming-wise.

[Mobhack]

Level bombers were only ever put in for the Normandy breakout in WW2 for scenario designers to use as such, or for an arclight strike in a scenario for MBT.

They aren't very useful really other than for scenario flavour, which is what they were designed for. There is no need for more than a handful in a large OOB, as they wont ever see use.

I may well change the code so they are only made available to an assaulting player in battles (because use of strategic bombers is something planned well in advance) or even only available in the scenario editor. Perhaps the same for gliders and para planes, since those missions were also pre-planned well in advance, and having paratroopers drop in an encounter or advance/delay is therefore silly.

[zastava128]

Originally Posted by Griefbringer

I think that I have at some point played a late war scenario that comes with the game that pits Germans against a joint attack by Bulgarians and Soviets. Cannot recall the name or number for that one. But that is probably the only time I have played a game involving Bulgarians. I have taken a glance at their OOB at some point, however.

The scenario in question is #101, and it's the only one involving Bulgaria.

I've also played a generated campaign with Bulgaria as one of the opponents. They're about on-par with the Italians - low morale and experience, poorly equipped infantry, 75mm guns, tankettes and Panzer 38s mostly. They do get stronger in late 1944, when they start getting Panzer IVs and StuGs.


As an aside, one notable historical battle involving the Bulgarians - which would perhaps make an interesting scenario - took place on 17th September 1944, when the Bulgarian Armoured Brigade was advancing near Pirot, Serbia. It attacked the German 1st Mountain Division and got thoroughly trounced, losing an entire company of Panzer IVs (10 tanks) to a single German 88mm gun!