Oh...my....GODS!!!

[Miles]

Originally posted by Johan K:
With modding it is quite easy to create an uber god so this cheat detection is necessary to make sure the god has not been created using a custom super mod.

I know that you created the game. It is your baby. But, this blanket definition of cheating seems wrong.

What is cheating in a single player game?

What is cheating in a game between concending adults?

I can see the need for checks in casual multiplayer. However, it seems to me that this check should be enabled or disabled on the game setup screen.

The state of this check should be announced every time the game is entered.

IMHO the check should be optional. It seriously disables the ability to handicap or enhance a player (AI OR human).

Course, it is only your opinion that counts. BUT, I think my opinion would probably be more popular with the (non-hardcore) customers.

Thanks for the great game.

Miles

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by Johan K:
With modding it is quite easy to create an uber god so this cheat detection is necessary to make sure the god has not been created using a custom super mod.

OK I can understand this. With the old map commands you could also create an uber god but I thnk it would only work as a cheat if you were the host. With the new mod ability you could create a transferable god file.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Dekent:
That'd be great, I have both IM and a 'junk' email address that I use for file transfers.

I don't use IM. Filthy IMs. If you want to PM me that email, though, I can post it somewhere and send you the site to pick it up at, or something. Not entirely sure how to send a binary file over an email, though. It tends to get mangled.

[Dekent]

Some others seem to be expressing concerns over the same issue, wonder if any of the fanpages would be willing to host it?

Or if you can find a host server for it just post it here so anyone who would want it can get it

[ January 14, 2004, 00:00: Message edited by: Dekent ]

[Norfleet]

Okay, here you go:
http://pheak.kludgemush.com/~fishman/dom2mods.zip

Cheat Detect disabled. Note that for any prospective MP cheaters reading this, this will not enable you to cheat in multiplayer unless you host your own game: This only allows the hosting of mods, or cheating in single-player: Clients do not require this to play mods, only the host requires it.

[ January 14, 2004, 04:38: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

[Miles]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Okay, here you go:
http://pheak.kludgemush.com/~fishman/dom2mods.zip

Cheat Detect disabled. Note that for any prospective MP cheaters reading this, this will not enable you to cheat in multiplayer unless you host your own game: This only allows the hosting of mods, or cheating in single-player: Clients do not require this to play mods, only the host requires it.

Well, now. When I unpack that, it looks like a Windows executable. I will have to add: "Linux game players are less likely to cheat in multiplayer games" to my list of reasons for switching to Linux.

This doesn't really fix the underlying problem. It seems to me that the REAL problem is that cheat detection has slight benefit for Multiplayer games. However, it harms Singleplayer games.

If this trend continues (favoring the interests of Multiplayer to the detriment of Singleplayer) it could cause serious damage to the future of the game.

I think this problem should be openly faced and dealt with. I believe that Dom2 is currently limited because ALL games are treated as multiplayer games. The most obvious place to start is to add options to the game setup screen that allow you to setup types of games that favor single or multiple play.

Game setup options that I think would help include:

• Enable/Disable Cheat detection
• Number of simultaneous global spells
• Enable/Disable unbalancing spells
• Enable/Disable unbalancing Units
• Enable/Disable unbalancing Gods
• Enable/Disable unbalancing Nations
• Enable/Disable unbalancing sites
• Enable/Disable unbalancing events

Anywho, you get the idea. In many ways, a multiplayer game is boring in single play. Multiplayer games normally never allow any single event to really alter the progress of the game. All factions in Multiplayer games have to be roughly equal. You can't play a very strong side. You can't play a very weak side. The game can't be very unpredictable. Games usually drag on LONG after the result is apparent because the game doesn't allow a side to collect or deploy overwhelming power.

But, Dom2 really NEEDS a strong singleplayer game. Most of the consumers will never multiplay. Without strong singleplay, Dom2 will get bad 'word-of-mouth'. Most of the multiplayers will be recruited from singleplayers. Without compelling reasons to singleplay, the numbers of multiplayers will be severely limited.

I have been playing Dom2 since it came out. Before that, I played Dom1 for months. I still play MOM. I still find Dom2's singleplayer game very enjoyable. But, I think it could use some improvement. I suppose that I could try multiplayer. But, my schedule never seems to be that predictable.

Sorry for the long post.

Thanks for the great game.

Miles

[ January 14, 2004, 18:50: Message edited by: Miles ]

[Gandalf Parker]

If this trend continues (favoring the interests of Multiplayer to the detriment of Singleplayer) it could cause serious damage to the future of the game.

I think this problem should be openly faced and dealt with. I believe that Dom2 is currently limited because ALL games are treated as multiplayer games

Im 95% single player. And would love to see the devs decide to do something along the line of some of these suggestions. But I cant doomsay it as something that must be fixed or it will seriously hurt the game. The game is an MP PBEM game. At least they dont treat solo play as barely a tutorial walkthru and nothing else.

[Dekent]

I also belive they should focus on single player aspects above multiplayer. Anyone shocked? hehe...

I don't have any hard numbers, but as with other games I'm sure most people play single player for the most part. Even if the devs intend for it to be a multigame I wish they would consider changes to the single player first and foremost. Having a way for the game to distinguish between solo and mutligames would go a long way (which would allow that damn host button to go away ;p)

Considering when you balance for MP you balance for SP as well but the opposite is not true.

I can't quite see the big stir from people crying "Oh it's never about SP, it's all MP" when your problem (Making out of control pretenders) was fixed within 2 days after the patch release by a 3rd Party while retaining the MP balance of not having cheaters.

It's MP, Modability, Balance, Customer Support, etc, etc that keep people playing the game and more importantly buying the game.

I'd love to see some AI updates, Diplomacy and other SP features in the game, but I don't think you'd have the game you have now (so deep and diverse) if they thought about SP first. They'd be thinking about making 'campaigns' and other things that would, over time, kill the MP aspect.

[johan osterman]

None of us, illwinter and associates, play single player strategy games to any significant extent. Dominions 2 is the way it is to a very large extent due to that it is a game that is enjoyable for its makers to test while it is being made. I think you are better of making a game you enjoy yourself rather then trying to create a game for someone else. Dom 2 is essentially a labour of love, and illwinter happens to love multi player games more than single player games. I am not saying that the SP aspect should or will be ignored, just that there is a dom 2 at all because JK and Kristoffer enjoyed making it, and they would not have enjoyed making a single player game, so it is very unlikely that SP gameplay will ever take precedence over MP gameplay, even if it would be more market savvy to go in that direction. Furthermore, as zen pointed out, most of the additions that work for MP work for SP as well. I hope no one will be offended by this, as some people previously were, for both the strengths and flaws of dominions is derived of this approach. Illwinter does not and can not operate as a major design studio does, whether dom 2 fans would like it to or not.

[ January 15, 2004, 00:55: Message edited by: johan osterman ]